CMR software available to end-users?

[srttravis]

Right, i totally agree with above. Iv now considered selling my JGC srt8/trinity and buying a trailblazer SS and the HPtuner software just so i can get my foot in the door with tuning. Just kidding i wouldn't do that but building my jeep has taken a dramatic pause do to the 2500 dollar price tag for the cmr software. im really stuck on this and don't see why diablo has not released a license based software. It seems like everyone with a jeep srt8 gets their tunes from johan from diablo and some other guy in NY. I would spend money out the a** renting a dyno to dial my jeep in, but instead i have to leave it in the hands of someone else or spend the 2500, i don't have a customer base, i don't have a shop yet, i don't have a dyno of my own. spending 2500 dollars on that software would take years and years to pay off reselling tunes at my stage in life. i would love to make a career out of tuning engines someday and tuning your own vehicle is the only place to start in this business. really stuck on this set back and am probably going to sell my jeep and get something else that i can tune via EFI live or HPtuners. Diablo...please tell me your getting ready to release it.

[06MonteSS]

nothing in the works at this point.. no ETA...

[gearhead143]

nothing in the works at this point.. no ETA...

That’s what I was waiting for, and thought was going to be posted. I have been watching this thread for a long time, and registered so I could post in hope there would be a change of heart. But as of now I see this will never happen.

I see that I must move on. I have looked at FAST XFI that integrates with a harness for the Jtec, but I as many that have worked with the GM LS PCM in its application can get you any where you want to be with minimal tuning time, and has to offer a lot more of the daily driving needs than the stand-alones. So for a while now I have been working on integrating the LS PCM into my 97 Dakota for my new engine, and so far it looks like it might work.

The way I see it is the people that tune MOPAR are a closed community and won’t talk about anything and the software companies (very few) put a high price tag on what they have to sell. Unlike the other brands (GM, Ford, ect.) that the communities share their information and the software companies keep their software affordable for the DYI and are excited to release their new software or updates. They also let us upload the existing file from a PCM and edit it if it hasn’t been locked and continue on so we can polish our tune.

Its sad to think there is thousands of MOPAR owners that have been DYI tuners with the other brands will never have affordable software to tune their project. Its also sad that Diablo wont come out with a statement of WHY they wont release the locked one user of CMR. If it will never happen, let the people know, and why, and lock the thread so hopefuls of this software can finally sit down and figure out a direction to go. If it is going to be released give a date and sick to it! Don’t let this torment linger on.

Gearhead143

[djkomplex]

I would be willing to purchase a vin locked version of CMR. This thread started in 2007, its either being worked on or it's not happening, I would be willing to contract and be comped a lifetime license for adding in the code to lock it down to a vin, I could even write the web (PHP) part that will register / license the software with the username and vin after signing a NDA of course. I was interested in buying the full DCX version of CMR and haven't even had a sales person contact me. I was really wanting a demo to even see what the software is like before I just go and drop the 5k. For the price if I tune 20 cars, its paid for and the rest is profit. I have access to a dyno anytime as the owner lets it sit more than it is being used. I don't think a single user version would take away from the dealers, for me the closest dealer that has the DCX software is on the other coast and I try to put as little miles on my SRT as possible. Release a SRT4 version, see how it does and then go for other vehicles. The SRT4 community is big enough we can help each other. I love my intune as I can datalog without a laptop and then view my logs and if I see something not right, I can tune it on the handheld but the handheld does lack features which a big one is boost by gear, just have to be real careful in first and second or it will end in a smoke session.... I do miss my AVC-R as the boost by gear made the car really driveable. I could even see a possibility to where a shop might be a diablo dealer but doesn't have enough DCX customers to warrant spending the 5k so they have the customer buy the single vin locked version and they tune it for them on the customers laptop. Most of the dealers around where I live would do that as their exact words were, we don't have enough clientele to warrant spending 5k for the DCX version as the diablosport dealers here with CMR mostly tune fords which like I saw in another post, the DCX does have ALOT of different parameters. Anyway, figured I would try to see if there was a version coming out in the future or not to hold our breath. I do know alot of resources are going to getting the new cars to work with intune / trinity... Im not sure even how big of a team works on CMR. Anyways, keep up the good work!

[firefox7518]

Hi Diablo Team

Please please please think about his again. All the people outside United states (me for example) have lot's of troubles finding someone with a CMR software. In Switzerland I don't know anyone who has this software for example.

This is not user friendly and sets the expectations really low on the usage of the intune/trinity. Especially if the adverts are so general. Me and a lots of other bought the intune because there were so many options listed but actually its down to some shift points (and there not even all), Fan control and throttle boost... I don't know that's not really cool.

The intune/Trinity are tied to a vehicle, right? Why not using the same mechanism for the CMR software? So it will be tied to the intune/trinity and only could be used with this particular intune/trinity.
That way the actual mechanism of restoring the vehicle with the intune will drive the licencing witout making it to complicated for the CMR software to update? I'm ok to pay 200-300$ for the software in addition to the intune or trinity!

Something like this would make it a great deal and really think diablo would have more sells and more support from all the gearheads out there.

[klaw]

Disappointing to say the least.

[Rennteam]

Stupid me...I was looking for the CRM software but just now realized that I cannot buy it.
I am an IT pro, have a lot of experience in software programming and with ECU mapping (not up to the professional level some of you guys may operate at though) and I would really want to try to do the custom tunes myself (with a little help from my dealer) but apparently I can't. Simply because I do not have the software. Ouch, this is quite disappointing.
A VIN locked version or one which needs to be activated first, would be just fine, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Not trying to start a business here (yet ).
I could easily get the software in a different way but I support programmers and companies who put a lot of work into their products, so no way I would use the CRM software illegally. However, Diablosport doesn't make it easy for us.

[06MonteSS]

you can buy the software... it's $2,500+.. contact the sales department...

[Flantas]

With a total lack of reputable Ford remote tuners in the world. I was hoping to at least try burning my own pistons up. Hopefully I can get some sucker to buy my intune so my wife will let me get a SCT.

[SHFTQIKR]

I am a recent Trinity buyer, and while it does seem to have made some small improvements, it certainly is not the "ultimate tuning tool" I was expecting. I also have a 1g DSM with ECM Link, and the parameters that I can adjust are far more in depth than the few adjustments available with this tuning solution. Is there a reason that the company has put such a clamp on this device for the end user, when companies can give more control over an OBD1 system than this gives over a modern car? I certainly think this full tuning solution should be available for a reasonable price for purchase. ECM Link can be had for Less than $600. The more I research on this, the more I am seeing a never ending money pit instead of the end all be all solution it is made out to be. While it is better than an SAFCII, it is FAR less than expected, and these "tunes" are outrageously priced. The tech support rep I spoke totold me that injector size compensation was available, but this is not the case. I was also told that boost by gear was available via tuning options by the tech support person I spoke to before purchase, this is not true. I found boost control based on RPM, but this is not a solution. Anything over about 7psi in 1st gear ends in smoke at the wheels, and I'm sure many SRT4 drivers run 1st gear past 3000rpm. I would love to give this product good reviews, but without CMR being available to the end user, this is little more than a SAFCII, MSD BTM, and APEX'i VPC setup. I know the younger owners don't know what can REALLY be done with good software, but this isn't my first rodeo. It sure seems that there are plenty of people offering to help lock the software down to a single car, which is fair to the company. I am sure however that many others like myself feel that it is unfair to keep the very reason we all bought this tool locked away from us. PLease give me something to change my view on this product.

[mikel]

I am a recent Trinity buyer, and while it does seem to have made some small improvements, it certainly is not the "ultimate tuning tool" I was expecting. I also have a 1g DSM with ECM Link, and the parameters that I can adjust are far more in depth than the few adjustments available with this tuning solution. Is there a reason that the company has put such a clamp on this device for the end user, when companies can give more control over an OBD1 system than this gives over a modern car? I certainly think this full tuning solution should be available for a reasonable price for purchase. ECM Link can be had for Less than $600. The more I research on this, the more I am seeing a never ending money pit instead of the end all be all solution it is made out to be. While it is better than an SAFCII, it is FAR less than expected, and these "tunes" are outrageously priced. The tech support rep I spoke totold me that injector size compensation was available, but this is not the case. I was also told that boost by gear was available via tuning options by the tech support person I spoke to before purchase, this is not true. I found boost control based on RPM, but this is not a solution. Anything over about 7psi in 1st gear ends in smoke at the wheels, and I'm sure many SRT4 drivers run 1st gear past 3000rpm. I would love to give this product good reviews, but without CMR being available to the end user, this is little more than a SAFCII, MSD BTM, and APEX'i VPC setup. I know the younger owners don't know what can REALLY be done with good software, but this isn't my first rodeo. It sure seems that there are plenty of people offering to help lock the software down to a single car, which is fair to the company. I am sure however that many others like myself feel that it is unfair to keep the very reason we all bought this tool locked away from us. PLease give me something to change my view on this product.

Are we talking Neon SRT4 here?
Injector changes are more in depth than you could do properly through any handheld, and usually require other changes in addition to the injector scaling, hence the need for custom tuning for an injector swap.
Boost by gear can be done, there are a few CMR tuners who offer it.

These PCMs are incredibly complicated and its too easy to make one wring change and ruin the motor, hence we leave the software suites in the hands of pros or those willing to accept responsibility for what they do.
The tunes we provide are powerful and safe, and the tools allow for room to grow, as you mod, which is why we have been the tuning tool of choice for the SRT4 market for years now.

There is a chance of single user cmr packages happening inthe future, but I dont have any sort of time frame to offer for now.

Thanks

[SHFTQIKR]

Yes, we are discussing the Neon SRT4. Injector sizing for ECM link is done via Global scaling, you input the injector sizing and base fuel pressure, the software does the rest. This is not on a handheld, it is on laptop plugged into the ECU via the diagnostic port. It uses a flash-able EPROM. If an OBD1 setup can do this, I would certainly think that the know how is there to get these ECU's to work in similar fashion. I would think things like boost by gear would be better suited to be based on vehicle speed parameters more than engine rpm. An inexperienced end user could just as easily destroy their engine having access to the timing and fuel tables. To lean, or to much timing at the wrong time, things go boom. I feel it's wrong to hide behind the complications of the software. There are still many things about ECM link that I am not fully aware of how to use, hence I leave those settings alone. But re-sizing for injectors, come on, even for a novice like myself I can get a little more out of the car with the basic understanding that adjusting fuel flow changes air flow seen, and then requires a timing change. But that is old school tuning using items like the SAFC and MSD BTM. Things like ECM link, and I was hoping Trinity clean that up a bit. It's seeming to me that this does have growth potential for our cars, much like an AEM EMS stand alone but at 4 times the cost once your done getting your setup right. The idea behind buying a tuning solution for your car is so that you, the end user, can have full control of you engine. These re-scales should be apart of the purchase support. You know that almost every user is going to move to the 3 bar map and tip setup yet charge for this service as well. I have seen posts on other forums by a CMR tune,r that appears to be highly regarded in the community, post 3 different rates for the re-scale service. In 1 post a member is asking about injector sizing, and the CMR tuner states "why not do it, the 3 bar and injector re-scale is free", only to post in another discussion that it's only $25, but on the web site for this CMR, it states that the cost is $50. Reminds me of a certain Software company that charges for everything that needs updated on your computer, game console, or anything else with their name on it.

This topic has been going how long now, I believe the original post was 2007? If it's not been released at this point I suspect there is no plan to do so, and with the sale to Holley, I'd say it's even less likely. Gearhead143 made some valid arguments in his post back in 2011 on Nov. 30th. It followed posts in Feb that year by 2 CMR tuners offering help to get this released. Will Holley bring this tool to it's full potential, or continue trying to zap every dollar they can from the community? Imagine if every end user saved the funds to just outright purchase the CMR software then cut ties with the company and went to independent tuners for help. It would all but end development of the product, and eventually bring this platform much like others to an end. ECM tuning released a completely open ended program years ago for 90's vehicles, and is still being used and purchased to this day. These end users still seem help from the parent company, and of course dyno time to dial in the setup. Some just pay to have it tuned. I' am still not seeing a true reason that this is not being made available to users, except the lust for profit. Charge an extra $200 for current owners to get a single user license, and charge $800 a piece going forward for users that want the full software, less for users that don't feel the need to have the full version. I think it's time to do the right thing for the customer, I've already experienced the "customer service" Holley will be giving. They weren't happy to find out that there are companies selling this item $100 cheaper than their MSRP. Even made threats of revoking supply to these companies. So much for the Free market place right. Once company purchases stock, it's their problem if they loose money on it.

On a brighter note, I can now say after getting a stock WGA back on the car and messing with it a bit it's getting better. Still not as much umph as just the AGP WGA on it, but getting better. The part throttle boost issue certainly clears up. I will reserve judgement of the ability whith what we are given to work with as end users.

[mikel]

Injector scaling is not that simple, by any means, maybe on some antiquated OBDI based processor, but times have changed.

Im not sure where you are seeing prices for tunes, but each dealer sets their own pricing, we dont have anything to do with that....

[duster360]

These re-scales should be apart of the purchase support. You know that almost every user is going to move to the 3 bar map and tip setup yet charge for this service as well. I have seen posts on other forums by a CMR tune,r that appears to be highly regarded in the community, post 3 different rates for the re-scale service. In 1 post a member is asking about injector sizing, and the CMR tuner states "why not do it, the 3 bar and injector re-scale is free", only to post in another discussion that it's only $25, but on the web site for this CMR, it states that the cost is $50. Reminds me of a certain Software company that charges for everything that needs updated on your computer, game console, or anything else with their name on it.

LOL,,,Sounds like me and sorry for you're misunderstanding but you're way off base.

I charge $50 for a Rescale,,,,,whether its for 3bars OR for Injectors OR a Return Line, Rear O2 OR whatever,,

Now If you want to pay separate for each change you can, but that would be stupid,,,A smart fellow would want to change everything at once,,then it's ONLY $50, which is why you can consider every other change, IF DONE AT THE SAME TIME, is "free". I figure If i'm in there making 1 chnage, it doesn't cost me anymore to make EVERY change you need, so why charge extra? makes sense doesn't it?

Also if you were a return customer, I give you a discount. Not hard to comprehend that one.

Honestly there isn't a handheld tuner on the market that is as powerful as Diablo's. Most don't allow a single change to be made but Diablo offers significant A/F, Boost and TIming changes. I just had a guy pull over 535whp in his Srt-4 ONLY using my E85 Base tune($150) and changes with his Diablo.

Most CMR tuners have issues changing Injector characterization correctly on injectors over ~700cc, so NO, this will NEVER be an option on a Handheld,,,ever. I can't tell you how many F'ed up tunes I've fixed over the years due to a very poor Inj Scale.

Go pay HpTuners $600 for they're single user software if that's what you think you need. But let me tell you this: most of my work is from fixing jacked up tunes from PROFESSIONAL tuners that don't know the 1st thing about tuning an Srt. If you think it'll be a piece of cake, you have a rude awakening.

[jsachnet]

And you still have a lot to learn... Why did you delete that thread on srtforums where you literally claim you developed a function that has always existed in the pcm: F/A Ratio Modifier when Knocking. I love how you try and mislead people like your some tuning jesus.

How are you fixing others tuners tunes anyway, were you not one of the leading criers about tunes being someones IP? Now your able to open other peoples tunes? Standard hypocrisy I guess; do as i say not as I do...

I love how you make it sound like you actually did anything on some of these rescales. The 3 Bar one alone is offered as a cal file on this forum.

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And all it took was a polite email with cmr screenshots included to a few companies that actually manufacture some higher end fuel injectors to be given plug and play numbers in return for a proper rescale. They want their products to work so they were happy to help. Keep telling people all the bs you want, truth is you are just passing other peoples work off as your own (Chrysler Engineers)....