Diablo Problems truck will not start!!!!!!!!!

[cegpcola]

So I have a 2001 Durango with a Hemi swap from a 2005 Ram. I have had this swap done for 2 years without probles, but last night I loaded the Diablo up and now I have problems.

When I first started to load the tune, it told me that I need to update the CalID. So last night I updated the CalID, and then went straight to the 93 Oct tune. It was too late to start the truck, so this morning I went out to start the truck and it fired up then imediately died. Tried it again and the same results. I switched to the 91 Oct tune and tried but it wouldn't even fire at all. I switched to the 87 Oct tune, Modified Stock, and the backup all with the same results, no fire. I am pissed at this point because this is my DD.


First off, I did not have any complications during the uploads at all, so the DS did the upload without problem. One thing the I am wondering about is the Sentry Key coding. I had to have B&G flash the PCM when I did the swap because to get rid of Sentry Key, and I am wondering if the Diablo CalID update turned the Sentry Key back on.


Please help on this if anyone has input, as again this is my DD and I have to be at work tomorrow.

[slip]

Try disconnecting/reconnecting the battery.

[cegpcola]

Still haven't got this figured out.

CalID for the truck!

PCM: 56028958AI
TCM: 05094258AD

[johan]

Like you said in the PM, since you did a calibration update to your BG flash that had the sentry key disabled you now have it enabled and hence preventing it from starting.
Might wanna contact BG and see if he can make you a new tune based on the new calibration.

[cegpcola]

Like you said in the PM, since you did a calibration update to your BG flash that had the sentry key disabled you now have it enabled and hence preventing it from starting.
Might wanna contact BG and see if he can make you a new tune based on the new calibration.

If I was happy with my B&g flash, I would have never picked up your product.

edit: This is not to say that I am upset about their flash, but I have basically outgrown it at this time.

[cegpcola]

Sent you a PM again. I have tried twice to call, but your wait times are insane. I spoke with B&G and they tried to modify the Backup file to disableSentry Key, and still nothing. They are telling me that my only option is to send the PCM back to them for a reflash of the original file they put on it at the cost of $230ish. I am extremely dissapointed in the way this ordeal has gone.

[Quick]

I'm trying to figure this out...

You had a B&G flash in your PCM.
Then you tried to use the Predator on it and the Predator wanted a calid update.
Then you did a calid update on your B&G flash???

I'm guessing here, but it sounds like when you first used the Predator you had a B&G flash on your PCM and the Predator grabbed that as the "original backup". So the Predator was treating that as the stock tune. (doesn't B&G offer his tunes as a custom tune file?).

So then you updated the CROM on your Predator? (why?). Then the updated CROM wanted a calid update (from the calid the B&G flash was reporting). Remember, the Predator thinks it's a stock tune.

You do understand what a calid update to the car does right? It completely reflashes the PCM with a new image/code/tune file. So when you did the calid update you flashed over the B&G tune with a stock Chrysler PCM image. Then when you applied one of the performance tunes the Predator stored that new calid/image as your Original Backup. So unless you have your B&G flash saved on your PC you just erased it (actually you erased it when you did the CROM update). ...and B&G generally just charges you for a new one in cases like that (or most any case)...

So who do I think you should be dissapointed with?
Probably yourself first, for not understanding what you were doing. Especially since "stock" does not work with your modified truck.
Secondly with B&G for not making all that clear when they charged you for a B&G flash to work with the Predator.

Bottom line is that your vehicle *requires* a custom flash and you overwrote that with the calid update.
B&G should have told you that if you were going to use the Predator on their flash that you were locked into that CROM version and not to update either the Predator or the calid.
B&G should have given you (or you should have opted for) the B&G flash as a custom tune file for the Predator.
If you do have the B&G flash as a custom tune file then you might be able to downgrade the Predator to your original CROM and then load the B&G as a custom tune.

I think B&G is the one you need to deal with.

[cegpcola]

I'm trying to figure this out...

You had a B&G flash in your PCM.
Then you tried to use the Predator on it and the Predator wanted a calid update.
Then you did a calid update on your B&G flash???

I'm guessing here, but it sounds like when you first used the Predator you had a B&G flash on your PCM and the Predator grabbed that as the "original backup". So the Predator was treating that as the stock tune. (doesn't B&G offer his tunes as a custom tune file?).

So then you updated the CROM on your Predator? (why?). Then the updated CROM wanted a calid update (from the calid the B&G flash was reporting). Remember, the Predator thinks it's a stock tune.

You do understand what a calid update to the car does right? It completely reflashes the PCM with a new image/code/tune file. So when you did the calid update you flashed over the B&G tune with a stock Chrysler PCM image. Then when you applied one of the performance tunes the Predator stored that new calid/image as your Original Backup. So unless you have your B&G flash saved on your PC you just erased it (actually you erased it when you did the CROM update). ...and B&G generally just charges you for a new one in cases like that (or most any case)...

So who do I think you should be dissapointed with?
Probably yourself first, for not understanding what you were doing. Especially since "stock" does not work with your modified truck.
Secondly with B&G for not making all that clear when they charged you for a B&G flash to work with the Predator.

Bottom line is that your vehicle *requires* a custom flash and you overwrote that with the calid update.
B&G should have told you that if you were going to use the Predator on their flash that you were locked into that CROM version and not to update either the Predator or the calid.
B&G should have given you (or you should have opted for) the B&G flash as a custom tune file for the Predator.
If you do have the B&G flash as a custom tune file then you might be able to downgrade the Predator to your original CROM and then load the B&G as a custom tune.

I think B&G is the one you need to deal with.

I will save the space for future comments, but basically the PCM was sent to B&G to flash out the Sentry key out for the swap. I have basically come to the point were my nextmods are going to require a bit of tuning. With that said, the Diablo is better suited for this instead of sending the PCM back and forth to B&G for flashes and still have no way of Datalogging. So when I got the Diablo, the Diablo picked up the B&G flash as a stock flash. So it had me update the Calibration (never a CROM update). I did the Calibration update Expecting it to use the current Calibration that it saw as stock and update based off of it. Well when the update went through, it overwrote the B&G Flash and did not save it. So that is where we are at.

Am I dissapointed in myself, Yes absolutly. I did not realize that the B&G flash was not written like a stock flash, but remember the Diablo saw it as a stock tune. This entire thing could be fixed with the ability to effectively cut the Sentry Key off in the Flash/Custom Tune.

[DiabloFan]

what a bummer

[cegpcola]

Your telling me! Currently Johan has been looking into this for me,so we will see what happens with it.

[Quick]

I see. You had a B&G flash before getting the Predator.

A little history. B&G was writing tunes before we had a handheld tuner. You sent B&G a PCM module (either your original or a spare with your VIN). B&G would flash the PCM with a tune and send it back. Most people would buy a spare, stock PCM module to swap in for dealer visits, etc. It cost a lot. Then the Predator came out and B&G offered an option to get their tune as a custom tune file (just like a CMR tune -- maybe what they use now). The Predator would not recognize the legacy B&G flashes (as stock/original tunes) and there was a B&G conversion option (at a cost) to convert your flashed B&G PCM to be recognized by the Predator or it was converted to a custom/cmr tune file. Then the Predator would recognize the B&G flash as a "stock" tune.

End result is that B&G is a DS certified CMR tuner that will do custome tune files for use with the Predator and they still tune/flash "standalone" PCMs. You originally got a "standalone" tune/flashed PCM from B&G. Then you got a Predator with a CROM that recognized the calid of the B&G flash as an older one (I do think the Predator recognized it as a valid calid, but an old one). So the Predator assumes it's a stock tune and thinks you need a calid update. When you updated the calid/PCM you wiped out the B&G flash with a stock Chrysler tune (and restored the Sentry Key function).

Now what to do and maybe who should help you out (all this is purely speculation and my opinion).

The DS performance tune files do not have the Sentry Key function disabled and the Predator does not toggle that either. You will will NOT be able to use the Predator performance tunes. What you could do with the Predator is tweak/modify a custom tune file that does have the Sentry Key function disabled. (No, I doubt that DS will ever make that feature available on the Predator for obvious reasons).

So you need a custom tune file if you're going to use the Predator or you go with a standalone PCM and do without a handheld.

The tuner I got my CMR (email) tune from keeps a file/record of every car he sells a tune for (haha, except he blew up his computer a long time ago and failed the backup course so some very early records were probably lost). I think you should ask B&G if they have a record or can reproduce your tune file.
a) It was a standalone flash and may need some conversion to make it a CMR?
b) Do they charge differently for standalone flashes as opposed to email tune files?
c) If your tune/flash was stock except for disabling the Sentry Key function then...
d) If you get an email tune what calid will it match? will it be a different cost?
e) If there's a significant cost difference in d) for the calid that will match your current Predator CROM then can the Predator be backdated with an older CROM that would match your original tune?

I think you should explore all your options with B&G first. After all, they are a DS CMR tuner/dealer right? I would also expect them to be familiar with this as I expect a lot of people have lost their B&G flashes this way before.

You should think of your options going forward too. You're always going to need a custom tune. I assume you didn't go to the trouble of a 6.1 swap with no intentions of ever tweaking it or modding it in the future. So you're going to want a custom tune that you or your tuner will be able and willing to tweak and change easily in the future.

[cegpcola]

The idea was to have an easier method to tune with in the future, but that has not panned out so well as of yet with the Diablo. I have been in touch with B&G today and they have tried to work the tune for the Diablo to cut Sentry Key off,but was unable. Their only option at this point seems to be sending them the PCM to do another flash on. I am not sure how I could adapt the Diablo tothis flash as there has been no mention of this.

Originally, the swap was done for a few reasona. 1) It was about the same cost wise as a drop in 4.7L 2) the extra MPG that would come from the better torque and extra OD in the Transmission 3) the cool factor. I was not worried about performance at that point, as there was no tuning options available at the time except the flash from B&G. Now that the Handhelds have hit the market and have been doing pretty well, I am starting to focus on the Performance end. I have a few mods that I am looking at over the next year that will require a lot of tuning and datalogging. I hope topick up a Challenger Drag Pack Intake, Comp 273 cam, and heads. These mods would cost me a fortune to tune properly shipping the PCM back and forth. Johan was working on this as they closed today,so we will see what they can come up with.

[Quick]

I have been in touch with B&G today and they have tried to work the tune for the Diablo to cut Sentry Key off,but was unable.

Interesting. I'm guessing B&G uses their own software tool for making the standalone tunes/flashes and CMR for making the custom tunes for the Predator. I kind of wondered if they had a conversion tool for converting a standalone tune to a custom predator tune. I guess not. It looks like when they did the conversions they manually took the tune changes and entered them into CMR. It is likely that CMR may not have the capability to disable Sentry Key? I do believe that B&G (as well as DS) have completely reverse engineered the flashes so they know where the change(s) need to be made. I suppose it can be tough poking bytes in an image