HEMI and Ethanol ???

[Hemisport78]

Hi Diablosport,

is your new Predator for the HEMI will have a function like the GM programmer have, to run with Ethanol ???

Thanks

[mikel]

This is not planned for the initial release.

Thanks

[powerbbs]

Hi Diablosport,

is your new Predator for the HEMI will have a function like the GM programmer have, to run with Ethanol ???

Thanks

Currently the 5.7L Hemi is NOT capable of running E85 feul. If you are interested in viewing the vehicles that are listed as E85 from vehicles I can provide you with this link http://www.e85fuel.com/information/vin.php which will provide you with that information.

If anyone can find proof that I am wrong, I would be greatly interested in reading it!

For now WARNING: E85 feul is very corrosive towards aluminum engine parts, fiberglass and rubber, feul pumps, paper feul filters, that have not been properly treated. Here's the skinny of E85 and it's drawbacks towards using it in engines not suitable for ethanol use: http://www.ethanolmt.org/switch.html

[mikel]

Keep in mind most fuel system parts used in newer cars have NO issues when used with E85.

Thanks

[Hemisport78]

Thanks, good info guys...

powerbbs, in your link, I can see the 2004-2005 Dodge Ram 4 .7...Tthis 4.7 can run with E85 and the Hemi can'ty ? More aluminium parts in the HEMI engine ??? I'm just curious...

[powerbbs]

Keep in mind most fuel system parts used in newer cars have NO issues when used with E85.

Thanks

I still would advise a word of caution utilizing Ethanol in a vehicle that does not have properly annodyzed aluminum. Aluminum is only part of the issue as well.

"In general zinc, brass, lead and aluminum are very sensitive to high-blend alcholol feuls and feuling system components that contain those metals should not be used in conjuntion with ethanol"

Plated steel, led-gased solder are also extremely corrosive in ethanol.

Other matierials that may degrade in the presence of high-blend alcohol fuels include natural rubber, cork, leather, polyurethane, polyvinyl chorlide (PVC), polyamides, mehtyl-methacrylate plastics and some types of thermo and thermoset plastics.

Quoted directly from the United States Department of Energy - Alternative fuels Data Center
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/specs.html

Feel free to check out the link and verify it yourself.

The age of your vehicle has little to do with it. New or old. The engine components that are made of these materials should be properly treated with an anodyzed treatment solution prior to exposure to ethanol. And with more and more parts in your engine being made of aluminum, I'd actually warn against using Ethanol without first consulting a qualified automotive engineer - of which I am not.

I'm not saying that you can't put ethanol in a vehicle and it won't fire up and run. I'm just saying that if you are unsure if you have any of these metals or substances in your engine and you are not already an approved E85/Flexfuel vehicle, then you run a huge risk of causing some very expensive and costly damage to your engine due to long term exposure and metal and other materials corrosion.

However, in the end, it's your vehicle. Do what you like.

[mikel]

Andy at DynotuneUSA has been doing testing with E85 for years, and has torn down several motors that were never designed to run E85, after 1000s of miles of use.
I have seen pics he has posted on other forums, and there has been no sign of any adverse effects of using E85 in non-flex equipped vehicles.

Thanks

[mikel]

Here you go, some great E85 info can be found here.
This is a link to a teardown of a non flex 5.7 Chevy truck that was run on E85 for 110000 miles!
No issues!
http://www.rune85.com/internal%20engine.htm

Thanks

[powerbbs]

Thanks, good info guys...

powerbbs, in your link, I can see the 2004-2005 Dodge Ram 4 .7...Tthis 4.7 can run with E85 and the Hemi can'ty ? More aluminium parts in the HEMI engine ??? I'm just curious...

I'm unsure of the exact reasoning why the 4.7 is considered E85 safe and the 5.7 Hemi is not.

The 5.7 Hemi engine does contain a lot of aluminum tho. Aluminum is utilized in a lot of large engine applications as it's great for disappaiting heat and has a "no rust" value. The 5.7 has aluminum heads, valve covers, head covers, feul injection nozzles, intake manifold, and water pump. I'm sure I've missed a few other items.

I'm pretty sure that the larger exposed area of the hemispherical combustion chamber (that is made of aluminum) is the primary reason, that currently a Hemi is not E85 compatible.



Here's link that explains Hemi/Flathead engine design (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hemi1.htm.

One thing that a hemispherical head will never have is four valves per cylinder. The valve angles would be so crazy that the head would be nearly impossible to design. Having only two valves per cylinder is not an issue in drag racing or NASCAR because racing engines are limited to two valves per cylinder in these categories. But on the street, four slightly smaller valves let an engine breathe easier than two large valves. Modern engines use a pentroof design to accommodate four valves.

Another reason most high-performance engines no longer use a HEMI design is the desire to create a smaller combustion chamber. Small chambers further reduce the heat lost during combustion, and also shorten the distance the flame front must travel during combustion. The compact pentroof design is helpful here, as well.



The HEMI Magnum engine has two valves per cylinder as well as two spark plugs per cylinder. The two spark plugs help to solve the emission problems that plagued Chrysler's earlier HEMI engines. The two plugs initiate two flame fronts and guarantee complete combustion.

It's the full combustion inside the larger hemisepherical chambers that gives the Hemi the horse power kick over other standard engines. It also means a very HOT intake chamber, so aluminum is required to keep the chamber cool. Treatment of this surface with any solution would be hard as the high flash point would most likely burn off any treatment applied over time.

But don't be dispaired. There are some IRON solutions (and other composite metals) to the problem that are out there (and even available from some aftermarket manufacturers) that will address this problem as the Hemi does move into the alternative fuel source market - like nickel plated aluminum!

Ah but that's another discussion. Sorry to give such a long reply to such a short question.

[powerbbs]

Here you go, some great E85 info can be found here.
This is a link to a teardown of a non flex 5.7 Chevy truck that was run on E85 for 110000 miles!
No issues!
http://www.rune85.com/internal%20engine.htm

Thanks

All of my research so far has been on the Hemi and my notes above are all just according to what I've discovered on the Hemi and a general warning about specific metals and their corrosive nature when exposed to ethanol. I can't really speak at all about the Chevy Vortec engines (which is a very different beast than the Hemi) and their reaction to ethanol as I've done no research on it.

It's good to hear you have tho! I do know that the Vortec Engine in the Chevy gets a lot better gas mileage than the Hemi! In my humble opinion the trannies on the Chevy are better as well.

Have you found any research/testing on a 5.7 Hemi and flex feul?

[stickman]

Here's the skinny of E85 and it's drawbacks towards using it in engines not suitable for ethanol use: http://www.ethanolmt.org/switch.html

The above url has nothing to do with running e85 in a car. The information is for transporting and dispensing e85.

Any car made in the last 10 years can safely use small ratios of e85. Most all gas now has 10% ethanol (e10) and most all can go up to e25, even e33 w/o any problems. There are several people running pure e85 (85% ethanol/15% gas) on non e85 cars w/o any problems. They have to retune the computer of course and in high performance applications update the injectors and/or fuel pump/pressure, but it's been mostly a no-brainer for those knowledgeable in the tuning arts.

There is one thread on a subaru forum where the manuf. of fuel pumps is offering free replacement pumps in exchange for pumps used with 100% e85 over a long term. They are doing this to get real world data on how their pumps survive on e85.

To the point if this thread... with tuning, of course a hemi engine could be run on ethanol. Might have to upgrade the fuel pump and injectors with the correct change to the ECU, but other than that, it should be no problem. Does it currently have a poly or stainless fuel tank and stainless fuel lines? If it doens't, then yes, they should be upgraded.