Knock Retardation (spark knock)

[Venum29]

I am getting annoyed by this issue. I have been running only Shell gas in my 2010 RAM 5.7L Hemi and I have been using 89 octane in it last 2 fill ups and I set the tune to 87 tune. I have been listening for KR and I would hear it from time to time. It was noticeable. So, I reset my RAM to OEM settings and ran it through same type of running and guess what, NO KR. WTH is wrong with this tuner to cause it to do this? I am not wanting to ruin my RAM over 20 hp and tq. This tuner should be able to run with Shell,Sunoco,BP,Mobil,etc gasolines. Something is not right with these tunes to cause KR. If I can adjust something, please let me know. If there is going to be an update to correct this issue, I would like to know as well. Other wise I can not use the tuner. I save on gas by using Shell. They have a program with Kroger store and I can save .10 per gallon for every 100 dollars spent in one month up to 1.00 dollar off per gallon up to 35 gallons. I am kind of tied to them, so the tuner needs to change for me to use it.

[Mike_Levy]

Hemi's knock. Its a known fact. Even stock most of them knock. Go test it without the tune. You'll still see knock using Shell, guaranteed. Don't listen, log it. If you're hearing it with your ears then its already destroying the motor. Shell is garbage gas, it always makes knock worse. If a $10k motor isn't justification enough to buy good gas, then I don't know what is.

[st4rdust]

Well, first off Shell gasoline is garbage. Sunoco and Mobil are definitely good gasolines, but I don't know how you rank BP and Shell up there as well.

If you're using 89 octane gas, why wouldn't you use an 89 tune? If you're going to use higher grade gasoline, you should tune to match the octane rating, otherwise it's pretty much a waste. See if you still notice KR while running 89 gas on an 89 tune.

[Mike_Levy]

He'll see even more KR using an 89 tune. There more timing added, so more will need to be taken away. If he's hearing it with his ears it may already be at the maximum the computer can pull.

Its really simple, the Shell gas is causing the problem. $0.10 a gallon times 35 gallons is $3.50. I still don't understand how you can justify destroying a $10,000 motor for a measly $3.50 a fill-up. And thats assuming the gases were the same price before the discount. I go outside right now, BP is $4.23, Shell is $4.29. So BP is $0.06, cheaper, so you're only saving $0.04 a gallon, or $1.40 a fill-up with a dry tank. Seriously, what can you get for $1.40?

BP is the best you can get in the US. Exxon and Mobil are up there too. Sunoco is questionable and depends on the station. Just do your truck a favor and use one of the good gases.

[Venum29]

If Shell gasoline is the reason that I am having this issue, why is there not a disclaimer stating this for the product, if there is I wish I would have seen it before hand. I will switch gas, I just do not understand why this should be such an issue. I have done the research and Shell gasolines are rated as a Tier 1 gasoline along with 76 Stations Chevron Canada
Aloha Petroleum Esso
Chevron Petro-Canada
Conoco Shell Canada
CountryMark
Entec Stations
Exxon
Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)
Holiday Stationstores, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mileage Stations
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Phillips 66
Quik Trip
Rebel Oil
Road Ranger
Severson Oil
Shell
Texaco
Tri-Par Oil Co.
U.S. Oil. So, I can use any gas except Shell.

[Venum29]

Look, I am not trying to get into an argument on here about what gas you like/dislike. As far as me saving on gas, I do not save just .10 a gallon. Last fill up was at .70 cents per gallon and I put 25 gallons into it, that equals 17.50 off for the tank. My point is, there is not anywhere I seen, or read for this product that simply put the intune will work for all gas except Shell gas. As far as a 10k motor I have a warranty that covers that. I have had no lights come on. It would seem to me that the intune is what is causing the KR. I have ran the DS tune, 91 tune and the 87 tune and minimum octane with DS and 91 was the 93 octane. The 87 tune I used 89 octane. I will for the peace of mind switch to a Mobil, or Sunoco gas and do the testing with those other gasolines. I am just very annoyed by this process and feel it is very crappy that it is what it is.

[Mike_Levy]

All that "TopTier" stuff is just propaganda. I wouldn't put 90% of those products in any car I had to drive, whether a good car or a piece of shit. In experience, there are only a few gas brands that work well for performance. All the others don't. Thats on the gas companies, not on Diablosport. They need to tighten the reigns on their refiners and distributors and make sure whats promised on the pump is what actually comes out of it.

Let me explain Shell to you. Ever see the commercials, where they claim that Shell gasoline cleans carbon deposits? That means theres a cleaner in the fuel. Cleaners don't burn, so they kill octane. Thats why Shell will always knock. You'd get the same thing if you put a good gas in your tank and a bottle of fuel system cleaner.

[Venum29]

I mean no disrespect, but I have a Marathon closer to me than any of them. They claim to put STP in there gas. So that gas is a no go as well? BP is close to another Shell. BP claims to put some kind of in-vigor(what ever that is) in their gas. Sunoco is close to the Shells as well. The nearest Exxon/Mobil is not very cost effective to buy considering the distance. Kroger Gas is pretty much Shell gas, so that is a no go. So for me to use my 400 dollar Intune programmer I am pretty much tied to Sunoco. I did not buy the intune to have to make a choice on using one or two different gas stations.

[st4rdust]

I did not buy the intune to have to make a choice on using one or two different gas stations.

Whether or not you're using the inTune has no effect on the quality of gasoline from these stations and the impact that they have on your engine. Bad quality gas is bad quality gas, and it will cause problems for your car regardless.

You chose to buy the inTune to increase your performance, right? So wouldn't you want to contribute to the performance by using quality gas that doesn't gunk up your system with additives?

That is the root of the problem, by the way. The fact that certain gas stations insist on throwing additives into their gas that they deem safe and necessary, and advertise it as beneficial, is fundamentally wrong and as a consumer, the best thing you can do is not support this practice and instead buy the "real" gasoline that isn't polluted with all these extras.

[Mike_Levy]

I had exclusively used BP in my CTS-V since I bought it last August. I thought it was working well. There was some KR, but I thought it was because of the increased boost. Last weekend I was out of town and had to put in Exxon. The knock is gone. Shocked the shit out of me!

So at this point, I'm gonna have to believe that these additives are indeed the problem. They seem to be killing the octane. I'll make some calls this week and see exactly what's going on with the stuff they add to the gas. I think somebody needs to explain to the chemists how engines and knock work and what additives do to octane.

[st4rdust]

I had exclusively used BP in my CTS-V since I bought it last August. I thought it was working well. There was some KR, but I thought it was because of the increased boost. Last weekend I was out of town and had to put in Exxon. The knock is gone. Shocked the shit out of me!

So at this point, I'm gonna have to believe that these additives are indeed the problem. They seem to be killing the octane. I'll make some calls this week and see exactly what's going on with the stuff they add to the gas. I think somebody needs to explain to the chemists how engines and knock work and what additives do to octane.

I've always been under the impression that BP gas was no better than Shell because they put their own additives into the gas. The "invigorate" additives are part of BP gas, right?

[Venum29]

Ok, so that brings me back to my first problem. Out of all the gasolines out there what ones do not have additives in them to rob octane? How do we as consumers, find out what is in our gasoline?

[Mike_Levy]

I had exclusively used BP in my CTS-V since I bought it last August. I thought it was working well. There was some KR, but I thought it was because of the increased boost. Last weekend I was out of town and had to put in Exxon. The knock is gone. Shocked the shit out of me!

So at this point, I'm gonna have to believe that these additives are indeed the problem. They seem to be killing the octane. I'll make some calls this week and see exactly what's going on with the stuff they add to the gas. I think somebody needs to explain to the chemists how engines and knock work and what additives do to octane.

I've always been under the impression that BP gas was no better than Shell because they put their own additives into the gas. The "invigorate" additives are part of BP gas, right?

Johan used to recommend the big 4; BP, Exxon, Mobil and Sunoco. That was before they started with the Invigorate BS. At this point, I don't even know how to go.

I just put a log up in the GM Trinity section. The car is going RICH, right before the KR hits, which says immediately that the gas is the problem. Additional gas should quench the knock, not make it knock.

All I can think of would be to use Race gas, but for $12 a gallon, thats not a full time solution.

[st4rdust]

Ok, so that brings me back to my first problem. Out of all the gasolines out there what ones do not have additives in them to rob octane? How do we as consumers, find out what is in our gasoline?

The stuff that you REALLY want to avoid is the stuff that the gas stations will advertise outright at the pumps, for example, BP's Invigorate and Shell's Nitrogen Enriched fuels.

After you weed out the really obvious stuff like that, another factor to take into consideration is ethanol concentration. The less ethanol in your gas, the better, and although most gas stations add some level of ethanol there are still a select few which run without any at all. These ethanol-free stations can be found here: http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

[Venum29]

Non are near me, so Sunoco and Marathon.