TIMING

[T91WHEELER]

Can anyone tell me the timing(s) of the 93 CAI tune? My research has led me to believe that + 25 degrees is more or less optimum for max power.

Also I can boost my shitty CA 91 octane to 97-98 with 32 oc Torco Accelerator in 20 gallons. Timing can be advanced 2/3 degree/ octane so I should be able to comfortably advance timing 3 degrees over the "stock" 93 CAI tune ((97.5-93)*2/3= 3).

Each degree could net an approx. 7 HP gain or possibly up to 21 HP for 3 degrees.

Can anyone shed some light on whether my thinking is sound or will I put my engine in serious danger if I try this. Most of these "rule of thumbs" come from Kenne Bell's website and therefore seem credible. However, maybe they aren't appllicable across the board to any car.

With the knock sensors there must be at least some level of built in protection...and you can always get off the gas if things aren't sounding right...famous last words...

[mikel]

To see total timing in the 93 tune, simply log total timing at WOT.
I'm no fan of octane boosters, but the Torco does seem to be the best out there.
I do question the 2-3° timing added per octane level.
Either way, if you want to advance timing, creep up on it 1* at a time, and always monitor the knock sensors for KR.

Thanks

[T91WHEELER]

Hello Mike,

Thanks for the quick response. Sorry I am not fully up to speed on what you mean by "log total timing at WOT". I am assuming there is a way to see this on the tuner itself but my understanding was the tuner just shows a nominal "zero" point being whatever is "stock" for a particular tune- not the actual value. So if the 93 CAI tune has say 21° adance as is and you add + 3 ° from 0 you are at + 24°. I guess I can plug it in and play around with it more but any quick tips would be a big help.

How do you monitor knock sensors? Will a code be transmitted or do you see this under the knock sensor menu somewhere? Are you talking about real time monitoring or just after the fact to see if timing needed to be retarded any?

By the way, the idea was for .67° timing advance per octane level not for 2-3° per octane level...so it is more tame.

Thanks again.

[mikel]

What I am refering to is using the real time data function in the Predator under diagnostics.
It will display (and/or log) total timing and knock retard, in addition to lots of other info directly from the PCM.

Thanks

[fullthrottle]

The horsepower to timing advance/octane level info from Kenne Bell is with forced induction, specificaly with thier supercharger. Timing advance and hp increase, in this case, has a direct correlation with boost increase as well.
I have not seen this type of hp increase with 1 degree of timing with a n/a setup. Unless the tune was way the frick off.
Once naturally aspirated maximum power is achieved with timing and fuel adjustments(tuning), you cannot make another change and get more power, you already have achieved the most.
For what you are attempting to do, you need a wideband and a form of performance messurement, such as a dyno or drag strip. The dyno will give you a more accurate test than the track.

[T91WHEELER]

I was working under the assumption that the canned tune timing using pump gas was probably lower than the theoretical max power timing of the motor. From what I read, max power timing tends to be around 25 degrees advance. Of course this will vary engine to engine and be effected by hundreds of paramaters... I was just trying to get a ball park of where the WOT timing nominally is in the tunes without knock retard kicking in.

But as you say, I guess there is no way getting around doing a good tune using wideband and dyno. I am set up to do this Friday.

[T91WHEELER]

I got my dyno tune Friday with Scott at GS Motorsports in Sante Fe Springs CA. I am very happy with the results. Stock I had a respectable max of 333 RWHP and 358 RWTQ with the 93 CAI tune. After dyno tuning I picked up almost 10 RWHP and 22RWTQ to 343 RWHP and 380 RWTQ. The real story was lower in the curve however. For instance at 3,000 RPM (my approximate converter stall speed) I went from 290 to 335 TQ and 167 to 193 HP!!