Dyno tuning the Predator

[Eagle1]

Newbie here, I am setting up a dyno shop in Port St Lucie. I have a customer, (hopefully), '07 Charger, hi-flow cats, cat back, CAI. He went to a dyno shop, was "tuned", and ain't happy! From what I have read, the Predator can be custom tuned, if so, do I need to be a full dealer to access it or what? I have tried calling sales, left messages, no call back! (Posted about this in another section)

[Quick]

You can do some basic (rough) tuning with the handheld. Not much granularity and no access to a lot of the tables. Basically WOT fuel and WOT timing in the 3 rpm ranges.

If you're a tuner you would want the CMR (Chip Master Revolution) tuning software that is capable of full tuning and produces tune files to be loaded to the car with the handheld. I don't know if you have to be an authorized DiabloSport tuner to purchase the CMR software (I believe so).

I'm sure a Diablo person with jump right on this Just thought the explanation might help in the mean time.

[mikel]

Yes, you'd be looking for our full tuning software, but one thing concerns me...how much of a NEWB are you to late model tuning?
Its not something that can be figured out overnight....

Give the sales guys another call today and they can give you the specifics on the software.

Thanks

[Eagle1]

I'm a NEWB to this forum and Diablosport. I am RELATIVELY a newb to late model efi tuning compared to the years of reading plugs and changing jets, two wheeled or four. I know enough to know what I don't know, LOL.
If I could figure it out overnight, what fun would that be?

[mikel]

Cool deal.
Start looking into some EFI training courses like EFI101 as the more you know going into it the better off you and your tunes will be!

Thanks

[Eagle1]

The more training I can get, whether in a class room and on my dyno, the better I like it, knowledge is power, horse power that is!
Quick question, the guy I mentioned in my first post told me before his "tune", which was done on a DynoJet, SCT certified tuner, he went from a 12.8 et, 114 mph to a 13.1 et and 109 mph! The et doesn't bother me as much as losing 5 mph. Is there enough room in the Predator to screw up a tune that much? The car is an SRT8.

[Quick]

Quick question, the guy I mentioned in my first post told me before his "tune", which was done on a DynoJet, SCT certified tuner, he went from a 12.8 et, 114 mph to a 13.1 et and 109 mph! The et doesn't bother me as much as losing 5 mph. Is there enough room in the Predator to screw up a tune that much? The car is an SRT8.

Absolutely. You can add as much fuel as the fuel system and injectors can provide. If you go the other way you can lean it out until the engine blows up. Same with timing. The "sliders" on the tool only go so far (a good ways) but then you could export the tune, import it again and start over where you left off. Killing a half second and 5 mph is a walk in the park

[sohfast94]

Quick question, the guy I mentioned in my first post told me before his "tune", which was done on a DynoJet, SCT certified tuner, he went from a 12.8 et, 114 mph to a 13.1 et and 109 mph! The et doesn't bother me as much as losing 5 mph. Is there enough room in the Predator to screw up a tune that much? The car is an SRT8.

Absolutely. You can add as much fuel as the fuel system and injectors can provide. If you go the other way you can lean it out until the engine blows up. Same with timing. The "sliders" on the tool only go so far (a good ways) but then you could export the tune, import it again and start over where you left off. Killing a half second and 5 mph is a walk in the park

HaHaHaHa ROFL!!!

By the way eagle1 if you need assistance while tuning I'm sure we can give you a hand tuning it.

[Eagle1]

[/quote]


HaHaHaHa ROFL!!!

By the way eagle1 if you need assistance while tuning I'm sure we can give you a hand tuning it.[/quote]

I appreciate the offer, I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions. The point about the sliders makes a lot of sense, if the SCT "genius" screwed up the CAI/93 tune,is the original still "filed" in the hand held? In other words, could we go back to the beginning, and undo the "tune"? Maybe I'm naive, but it worries me a bit that the average owner could, given enough rope, hang themselves. I was thinking that a hand held would allow some adjustability, not enough to blow it up, oh well, learn something new every day.

[Quick]

Booo. It wouldn't be any good of it didn't do much. For it to be any good it's also going to be dangerous. They haven't crippled it enough to sell in K-mart yet

The handheld comes with "canned" tunes (files). One of those would be the CAI/93 tune. These tunes are off the main menu under "Performance Tunes" They are read only.

If you load a tune file from a PC to the handheld (like a tune done with the CMR software) the main menu will have an added selection "Custom Tunes" where you can pick from the tune files that you may have loaded from the PC. These are read only on the hand held (they can be deleted with the DSdownloader but the file itself cannot be modified on the hand held).

Now... once you select a tune file from one of those sections, you have the menu option to either load it to the car or "Modify Parameters". This is where you would do stuff like adjusting fuel, timing, etc. These adjustments are relative to what's already in the tune file. When you adjust fuel it is by %. That would be +/-% of the fuel setting in the tune file you've selected. Timing is +/- degrees. Some adjustments are "toggles" like raised shift points on/off. Some adjustments are absolute like the temp your fans turn on (they show you the current setting).

The "modify parameter" adjustments are kept separately. You are not actually changing the tune file itself. When you load the tune file to the car the adjustments are made to the copy that is being loaded to the car.

The modify parameter set is not (unfortunately) associated and kept with a tune file on the handheld. For example if you were to select a different tune file the next time the same parameter changes you made to the last file would be in effect for the new file (The hand held does notify you "you have selected a different tune file than the last time. Would you like to reset all parameters?).

So... any time you make adjustments to a tune (file) the adjustments are applied when the file is copied either to the car OR to the PC. You can "export" files from the hand held to the PC. For example if you add 5% fuel to a tune, export it to the PC, then import it back to the Custom Tune section of the handheld that tune file will now have the added 5% fuel. If you now select that file, and do not reset parameters you would be adding another 5% (actually a bit more since the file now has 105% of the fuel you started with and you're adding 5% of that).

Short answer to your question. Yes, the original 93/CAI tune is still on the handheld.

Better yet. If they didn't do the export/import dance above, the "modify parameter" set may still be as they left it and you could look at that. Does your customer know they started with the 93/CAI tune? If so, go to Performance Tunes, select the 93/CAI tune, then select "Modify Parameters", then step through them. Most of the modified parameters will have a "*" in front of them. If you select them it should show you the current modification. In any case you could just reset all parameters to default and start over with the base 93/CAI tune.

Did that help?

[RFischer]

Hey Quick - thanks for that post - even if Eagle didn't read it, I sure learned from it. So Did that help? YES!

[Eagle1]

I read it, more than once! YES, big help, thanks!
"Haven't crippled it enough to sell in K-Mart yet" love it!!!
Having read it again, question, say I modify the parameters, (add 5% fuel), load it to the car, can I then import it to the custom tune section of the hand held, I'm assuming, (danger zone), that "exporting" to a pc is the same as exporting to the car?
Also, if I check the CAI/93 tune, any parameter with an * next to it means it has been changed right? If so, is there a way to look at the base CAI/93 tune side by side with the modified tune? I have no idea whether the "dance" was done or what, the "tuner" is listed as as SCT certified tuner, although it seems his audience is less than completely impressed, (I hope that is politically correct enough!)

[Quick]

First part on the files. You install the DSDownloader program on your PC. This talks to the hand held. You'll need the serial or serial to USB cable to connect the two. You'll also need a power supply (brick) to power the Predator. If you have a laptop I believe you can hook the Predator to both the car and the PC. The car hookup will power the Predator.

The Dsdownloader will have an option to get a tune from the predator. You have a choice of getting the Original backup from the Predator or getting the "last tune written" [to the car]. Remember these are copies and not moves so whatever you get is still on the hand held. I guess that means you have to load a tune to the car before you can copy it to the hand held (possible you could go part way through the load tune to car procedure and make it the "last tune written" but I don't think so).

If you make changes to a tune (like adding 5% fuel) and then write it to the car, you can then get it from the hand held onto the PC using the DSDownloader program and getting "last tune written". Ok, now we have the tune file on the PC. Then we can use the DSDownloader program to "send tune to predator". If you do that it will automatically go to the Custom Tunes section. If you didn't have a Custom Tunes menu selection before on the Predator, you will now. Probably a good idea to rename tune files once you get them on the PC (you don't have to). Just make sure you leave the string of numbers and letters alone at the font of the file name. You can put (or delete) anything after the first "_".

You can't look at the CAI/93 tune. If you look at the modified parameter list (that may have been applied to the CAI.93 tune -- remember it could have been applied to any tune) then you can look at the parameters preceded with a "*". Just select the parameter as if you're going to modify it (you can always menu back without changing it). On some parameters you will see the relative value. Like fuel. You might see +5%. Other parameters, like fan turn-on temp you will see a value like 192*. For those parameters you won't know what the setting was originally unless you knew it before. Still other parameters, like the toggles -- enable/disable stuff you won't know the current setting. Just that it's been changed (some have more than one selection). Something like that. You will probably be able to tell most of what's been changed and how much.

When you select a tune, if it is a different than the last one worked with on the hand held it will prompt you. Something like "the tune selected is different than last time, do you want to reset all parameters?". If it was the last tune selected you won't be prompted. That way you will know if the 93/CAI tune was the last one worked with. It doesn't necessarily mean it was the last tune written to the car but it's a good indication. If you select a tune and then go into "modify parameters", when you back out of modify parameters it will ask you if you want to install the tune to the car. I believe if you just back out of that menu (or just unplug the hand held) then that will be the last selected tune on the hand held. Note that it wasn't written to the car. Sounds like for your customer the previous tuner just selected the 93/CAI tune since it matched the car (and gas) and worked with that so it's very likely the last tune selected and the last tune written. I guess it's possible (not likely?) they might have selected the tune, modified it, written it to the car, and then reset all parameters on the hand held without subsequently writing it to the car again. In that case the car could have a modified 93/CAI tune but you wouldn't know it from the hand held. You'd have to ask the Diablo guys what you'd get in that scenario if you copied the "last tune written" to the PC.

Back to the export to PC and import back to the hand held. You will lose that information (what's been changed and how much) as soon as you export it to the PC. When you import it back to the hand held it will be in the custom tune section and whatever the settings are will be the "default" settings for that tune.

In any event, if you dyno the car and/or log the appropriate parameters with the Predator for the tune on the car now, and then restore it to stock, and then dyno again you should be able to see the changes that way too. Don't forget to give the adaptives a little time to adapt before dynoing after installing a tune. I believe the long term a/f adaptives change fairly quickly. Matter of a few minutes or miles of driving.

Some of the above might not be exactly right, but that's the general picture.