*** No TCM Support for your vehicle yet? JOIN THE CAMPAIGN!

[KnightOfDarkness]

Bottom line is that it seems that this thread; while useful for venting our frustrations, has had little to no effect in terms of getting us what we were promised.

One of the first rules of activism is that the easiest form of correspondence to ignore is electronic, becuase it takes so little effort to get rid of it without having to examine its contents, usually just a couple of key strokes and mouse clicks. When you think about it, this thread is even less useful because it doesn't show up in anyone's inbox. Now, I believe someone promised to show this to management once it got to a certain point; however, even if we could get a promise from someone like Mike or Johan to show this thread to the owners, all the owners would have to do is tell them that if they wanted to keep their jobs, they would never bring this up again.

It seems to me that if we want to make any real headway, we need to do as the savy activists do. Whenever they want to get something accomplished they tell you to write or call your representative. That's because they know things like email and forum postings do nothing. We have to make it an inconvenience to ignore us. I believe Lew has collected several people's IM handles. We could easily coordinate a mass mail or phone call campaign which we could organize away from this site. We would have to set ground rules so as to not have people intentionall or unintentionally say or send something inappropriate or even worse, illegal. This will definitely communicate our message much more effectively and persuasively.

What does everyone think?

[Grumpy_Aero_Guy]

Either way, the underlying assumption is that ownership cares, one way, or anther.

At this moment, I find this to be a tall assumption.

If they don't care, it wouldn't matter if we picketted the home office for a solid year. They own the business. They can do whatever they want, or don't want to do. That is their right.

In the end, this is America and business owners have a right to ignore their customers. We have a right not to buy the product. We all have, of course. Hard to make that retroactive.

Let's face it, the predator is a good product --- just short a feature that was promised, and thus far not delivered. I guess, in the end, sales (or lack thereof) talk louder than we do.

The only thing that will change this is if sales drop very sharply, or stop completely. Obviously, if this has happened (and there is no way to know unless it is a public company, which I believe it is NOT), it hasn't been enough of a hit to actually force them to listen to customers.

Basically, we are SOL and at the mercy of the ownership. Those are the cold hard facts.

In the end, money talks and BS walks. If the money is flowing in, the present customers are the BS and have little or no leverage.

Just call it like I see it.

[concoursd]

as a reseller of their products we let the customers words speak for themselves. But the issue remains that A LOT of money and/or time is required to reverse engineer and develop these features and products. Every customer wanted the product out yesterday. When they order, they wanted it the day before they ordered. Then when they get it, they want a perfect product where no corner was cut to bring a product out before absolute perfection.

So here in lies the issue. If DiabloSport held production and marketing of this product till they completed the TCM support, then EVERYONE would be prodding them to release it because "the other guys" got something.

Now, 2 years to finish TCM support is ridiculous. It is either truly a difficult undertaking that they have not been able to crack or they have not allocated the proper resources to it from the beginning. In the end it doesnt matter which one.

The reason this thread is important is because the more people that show anger and dismay over the delay, the more pressure that builds, then the more the issue becomes a priority. if this thread is successful, then the next meeting that reviews projects and resouce assignments will have this issue considered more seriously than if not.

Some will say, well lets just sell the tuner and buy brand x that has the TCM support. well, that does really nothing unless thousands follow. they would have to see a huge sales drop AND be able to attribute the drop in sales to that part number to the TCM support issue.

I also feel that TCM support will bring mild improvements to overall performance. maybe wrong. but keeping this thread at the top of the forum adds to importance of the pages and also gets more people to see the thread, investigate it, and join the campaign.

electronic protest may seem like it is easy to dismiss your opinion but it is the most practical considering an internationally distributed product. I actually think that without this forum, lets say all of this was on a third party car forum, you would have much less impact on the outcome.

[KnightOfDarkness]

That's cool, and you're right to an extent. People have gotten things accomplished if because people were tired of hearing them complain. But perhaps taking it to their wallets as opposed to our mailboxes is more your style.

If so, we get people in this forum all the time asking us what our predator can and can't do. Above that, they want to know if we are satisfied. When I have posted in this forum, it has usually been to endorse or defend the product. Perhaps it's time to add a caveat to that endorsement. "I'm very happy with the performance of my predator, what I'm not satisfied with is how the company has knowingly and repeatedly misled me in terms of the coming features and updates for my product. These were misrepresentations that effected my choice of this product over competitors ... etc." Along with doing it here, we branch out and make our concerns known to purchasers of their other products. Prospective consumers and current customers having bought other products should know what we have been going through and realize it could just as easily happen to them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we want to get TCM support, we need to expand out of this thread, all over this forum, and all the other forums too.

[concoursd]

that certainly another position you can take. I think that by keeping this thread at the top, you will be helping adding to that effect as well. You can also start similar campaign threads on other forums. Maybe mike L will include those campaign threads as well in his communications with management.

You may not recall the huge campaign that 3.5L dodge customers undertook when management was gauging interest of doing a predator for the LX V6 cars. There were huge interest campaign threads on this website and other forums. In record time, in my opinion, DiabloSport responded to this new application and part number.

So, i have seen it work with DiabloSport in the past, and it may work this way again too. I dont know. In the past, im talking years ago, diablosport NEVER and I mean NEVER gave an ETA on anything. Johan would always refuse to give an ETA. But, in the last year or so, I have seen him and others more inclined to give out ETA's and their estimates were not far off usually.

In the end, no matter what, this update/feature is long overdue. When customers asked us when the U7191 came out when the TCM support would be done, we said that we had no ETA on any such support and to not hold their breath. We were up front with them from the very beginning. Customers were definitely disappointed, but it was also one of the most advanced products for their cars at the time. I believe the U7194 was one of the first to market and the most effective for performance and features when it was released. So in that regard it sold because it was better at the time.

I truly feel that DiabloSport is lucky to have some of the most dedicated group of supporters/users in the GM Gas market. The community trolls the forums for tech support, for free. They developed the DSlogRedux software, which is a huge tool, for free. It makes DiabloSport's worthless owners manual a non-issue for an end user and makes their "advanced features" usable for the average end user and therefore more marketable.

I think the least DiabloSport could do is to get the TCM thing done and more importantly, keep the end users appraised of where they are in development without having to be asked about it. They should have a TCM development thread outlining where they are and what they are working on for the next stage of development. Nothing proprietary stated, but just a truthful, on the table non-ETA based timeline. That way, if they are pursuing it in good faith, then the current faithful community (all of you guys) can see that. If there is a hurdle or setback, then there is one.

Right now, I get the feeling that the vague development process that has gone on or, put it this way, the lack of communication during the whole thing, has led the community to feel that they were being lied to. And that is not a good thing.
1+ years later is a different story and they should be/should have devote time and work towards this update ASAP.

[Grumpy_Aero_Guy]

Now, 2 years to finish TCM support is ridiculous. It is either truly a difficult undertaking that they have not been able to crack or they have not allocated the proper resources to it from the beginning. In the end it doesnt matter which one.

electronic protest may seem like it is easy to dismiss your opinion but it is the most practical considering an internationally distributed product. I actually think that without this forum, lets say all of this was on a third party car forum, you would have much less impact on the outcome.

Been an R&D enignineer for some time (defense industry), as-of-late, a Senior one. ANY company, that puts its mind to something can get it done. Now, I believe your supposition is spot on. It IS complicated... It IS involved, and the controls in vehicles are MUCH MORE sophisticated than most people would ever imagine.

have not allocated the proper resources to it from the beginning

BINGO ---There it is. In my post a few back, I indicated that they could EASILY, right now, harvest a GM Powertrain Controls Guy in Detroit. WIll it cost $$$$ ??? Yep. Good engineers command a price. Money talks, BS walks. Right now, I think DS iownership is full of it --- you choose which one they're full of. You can fumble around for 10 years guessing, or pay a hefty consulting fee for someone knoweldgable to tell ya what to do in a week. Looks like they've made their choice. Now, the guys we are all familiar with can not be expected to be experts on everything. Get a specialist in there. Figure it our, pay him, release it, and everybody wins.

If they were honest, came out and admitted it (either it was more complicated than believed, OR, that they made a buisiness decision NOT to worry about it) --- it would suck for those wanting it, but most even minded people would probably accept it. Why don't they? Because (some of) their competitors HAVE IT ALREADY. Would make them look pretty foolish, more so than they do now blowing hot air that it's coming, and then it doesn't.

Either way, ownership shot from the hip, promised it, and are know digging their red wing out of their mouth. Just tells me that the follks doing the promising have NO CLUE what it takes to get it done.... AND, they probably don't listen to the guys TELLING them that it takes more than they're willing to invest. Trinity.... hello? .... are you there? Seems to me there was a press release about 18 months ago saying "its release was eminent".

At the very least, the owners are careless and inexperienced, at the very worst incompetent. Either way, blows for the customer waiting for a feature they were promised. Time for them to to squeeze, or get off the pot.

I agree with you.

[Grumpy_Aero_Guy]

I truly feel that DiabloSport is lucky to have some of the most dedicated group of supporters/users in the GM Gas market. The community trolls the forums for tech support, for free. They developed the DSlogRedux software, which is a huge tool, for free. It makes DiabloSport's worthless owners manual a non-issue for an end user and makes their "advanced features" usable for the average end user and therefore more marketable.

I think the least DiabloSport could do is to get the TCM thing done and more importantly, keep the end users appraised of where they are in development without having to be asked about it. They should have a TCM development thread outlining where they are and what they are working on for the next stage of development. Nothing proprietary stated, but just a truthful, on the table non-ETA based timeline. That way, if they are pursuing it in good faith, then the current faithful community (all of you guys) can see that. If there is a hurdle or setback, then there is one.

Man, you got that nail on the head --- The user's group you refer to creates a TON of aded value to the product --- that they don't even have to pay for. I think the guys like Johan/Mike/John, etc., understand it. If Lew dissappeared for a month and went MIA, people would notice. If the owners went AWOL, productivity would increase.

I don't think the owners have the first clue about it. My gut is, the owners aren't "car guys". If it was me, I'd look for a talented controls engineer that is a car nut. He'd getcha there in a matter of weeks.

[06MonteSS]

If Lew dissappeared for a month and went MIA, people would notice.

NICE!!

[CANUCKPREDATOR]

If Lew dissappeared for a month and went MIA, people would notice.

Maybe we should try that. Just post in this thread and post no advice for a week.

[concoursd]

Been an R&D enignineer for some time (defense industry), as-of-late, a Senior one. ANY company, that puts its mind to something can get it done. Now, I believe your supposition is spot on. It IS complicated... It IS involved, and the controls in vehicles are MUCH MORE sophisticated than most people would ever imagine.

I know what you mean. I have a relative that works for united defense and he was part of the quick response development teams to build the MRAPs. He described They used existing industrial truck frames and went from there. They had a problem where the axles would come right off the frames when the brakes were locked up. So they had to re-engineer that. It doesnt matter though because they got it done in months rather than several years like most projects. And they saved a lot of money too by using existing techonologies.

I understand how hurdles can crop up during development. It is just, the whole process in this TCM situation is not transparent or upfront. They announce something, and then nothing. The Trinity is a good example. They acctually had a prototype of that product at SEMA 2006. They stated that it would be SHIPPING by Summer 2007. Well, that is long gone too.

If the owners went AWOL, productivity would increase.

Now that is just funny....I do admit, they were amazingly fast at getting pretty much all of the diablosport resellers to fix their pricing at $369. Now that's leadership. So, now customers can pay more for the Predator without having TCM support, without having the Trinity, and without a reasonable timeline for either. Maybe one will catch-up with the other. Hopefully, in the next few weeks, all of you are busy using the TCM support or thinking about the newly released Trinity. I wonder if they are going to release the TCM support for the Trinity first, so that customers will shell out more than they wanted. That would be cruel. I hope they dont do that.

[Grumpy_Aero_Guy]

Or, better yet, introduce trinity, dispose of all the other tools, as trinity may be one plug and play unit with large enough capacity to determine the vehicle/engine from the VIN, and sell a one product tuning tool for all makes and models.

It will probably have TCM support for those that value it, and we will all be told that the other tools are obsolete, and that trinity has this feautre, and that the older tools can not support that, so you must buy that one....blah blah blah.

I can hear it now.

[LostAngel]

If Lew dissappeared for a month and went MIA, people would notice.

I agree with that as well...Lew has helped, and continues to help A LOT of people. I know how many times I message him about my own modifications...I can just imagine him doing the stuff he does with everyone...wakes up in the morning...goes to work...comes home...and goes to work again for the predator tunes...except he's not getting paid for the latter.

[06MonteSS]

I can sense a "No Lew Support" campaign comin' on.... STRONG!

[blackenedss87]

Boo no TCM support,
Hooray Beer!!!

I mean...Hooray Lew!!!

[CANUCKPREDATOR]

"WE WANT TCM, WE WANT TCM, WE WANT TCM......."

"WE WANT TCM, WE WANT TCM, WE WANT TCM......."

"WE WANT TCM, WE WANT TCM, WE WANT TCM......."

"WE WANT TCM, WE WANT TCM, WE WANT TCM......."