Help with tuning out KNK

[QuickRT2SRT]

I see Diablo responding to numerous threads on this forum and other forums.
But when it comes to solving KR and basic tuning, Diablo seems to be fairly quit.
Maybe this is because they do not want to share their approach to tuning to keep their proprietary methods from the competitors.

There should be at least a layman's thread on tuning and how to read datalogs, or another Forum section dedicated to understanding tuning/logs, or maybe more info in a Owners Manual.
Example - My simple question about what is the maximum timing/Spk I should see on my stock 5.7 300c at WOT at peak RPMs (5600) on the 91 tune has never been answered. I often see 23.5 as max spark/timing on the 91 tune during peak RPMs, but not always. Not once in this forum or other forums has Diablo ever answered this simple question.

I think that may be a fair question. I can only speculate why they might be reluctant to answer.

As you said, they are very closed about their tuning. I think that's understandable. It's a large part of their market differentiator. They invest time and knowledge into their tunes. While I think the primary purpose of the included tunes is to enable sales of the tuner it is a very large part of the product. I'm sure their goal is for people to say "Get a Predator, their tunes are way better".

Another speculation is that they could say, given a car the same as our test car, same fuel, same ..., the max timing would be X. But that may not be very useful. I do know that the PCM will pull timing for a number of reasons. Only 1 of those being knock detection. I do not know if the PCM will add timing due to dynamic inputs. You see a max of 23.5. What if DS's answer was 25? Naturally your next question would be "then why am I only seeing 23.5?".

Apparently they do not want to be in the custom tuning business and have enabled CMR tuners to fill that need. I think they aim to include the very best generic tune they can for basically stock cars. This provides a complete "turn key" tuning solution for the greatest number of customers. For those who want to go further, the handheld provides a very limited capability to adjust a very limited set of parameters. For those who want to go further than that they have the CMR solution (which still requires the handheld to put the tune on the car).

I'm guessing that your first thought was the right one. They have a general policy of not divulging details of the changes made to produce their tunes.

Regarding the CMR tuner part of your answer... While this may be true for many parts of the country, I cannot find a single CMR tuner for my Mopar anywhere around the Kansas City area here where I live... I cannot afford to take a trip somewhere for 2-4 days or more to find a place that does do CMR tunes on my car and then pay for the CMR tune on top of that... Where does that leave me and others here in my area?

[Quick]

You're talking about your SRT8? I find it pretty surprising that adding 8, 10, and 12 to a canned tune got you down to around 11 afr. I was adding about that (or more?) to a 91CAI tune (9r12) and it put me right at 12 afr. That's a very big difference.

91CAI tune to the 93CAI tune basically adds some timing and the fuel is the same.

Exactly where are you getting your AFR reading from? and are you pretty confident that it's right?

[QuickRT2SRT]

Thanks for the response Quick...

The 10.8-11.2 AFR was at the tailpipe. I have just ordered a Wideband AFR gauge to install the proper way but don't have it yet.
The readings were while strapped to a dyno. Not going however on just the AFR reading they got, the HP started out at 354 with those settings. then when I changed the tune to 5, 5, 7 it came up to 358 and an AFR of 11.5. I then changed the tune to 5, 0, 0 on fuel and the AFR came in at 12.2-12.5 and hp went up to 364 with tq at 361. The peak HP was at 5075 and then dropped off suddenly as the PCM started pulling timing. Normally without KR it pulls on up to 6k or so without dropping off.
This was using the 93CAI tune, using 93 octane BP, ACES IV additive, and ambient temp was just over 104. Coolant temps were in the 181-185 range and Intake temps were around 105-107.
I guess I am confused as I had thought I was on the right track before all this took place.

[Quick]

[Regarding the CMR tuner part of your answer... While this may be true for many parts of the country, I cannot find a single CMR tuner for my Mopar anywhere around the Kansas City area here where I live... I cannot afford to take a trip somewhere for 2-4 days or more to find a place that does do CMR tunes on my car and then pay for the CMR tune on top of that... Where does that leave me and others here in my area?

There are some pretty good tuners that will do email CMR tunes. You send them your stock tune and discuss what you're looking for. They send you back something they think will be in the ball park. You log what they want and send that to them. Maybe repeat a couple of times. Next best thing to doing it on a dyno.

[QuickRT2SRT]

Okay... I guess that would involve asking everyone I can what their recommendations are as to who to use, and who to avoid to make sure I find someone who can do it right and resolve my tuning issues.
Suggestiions? What to look for? Pros? Cons?

[Quick]

The 10.8-11.2 AFR was at the tailpipe. I have just ordered a Wideband AFR gauge to install the proper way but don't have it yet.
The readings were while strapped to a dyno. Not going however on just the AFR reading they got, the HP started out at 354 with those settings. then when I changed the tune to 5, 5, 7 it came up to 358 and an AFR of 11.5. I then changed the tune to 5, 0, 0 on fuel and the AFR came in at 12.2-12.5 and hp went up to 364 with tq at 361. The peak HP was at 5075 and then dropped off suddenly as the PCM started pulling timing. Normally without KR it pulls on up to 6k or so without dropping off.
This was using the 93CAI tune, using 93 octane BP, ACES IV additive, and ambient temp was just over 104. Coolant temps were in the 181-185 range and Intake temps were around 105-107.
I guess I am confused as I had thought I was on the right track before all this took place.

You're past me then. You should be seeing your best power around 12 afr and you shouldn't be having any significant knock retard going on at that afr with the canned tune timing. That's what I was seeing with decent to ok gas.

[QuickRT2SRT]

Well I changed my fuel yesterday after reading your responses to 5, 8, 8 and then drove it around to get it up to temps and did some more datalogging... The only KR I had was some brief ST right after shifts and a couple of tiimes a very brief spike (literally looked like a spike up then down) when I let off suddenly after a run... My SOTP dyno sure did feel like it was pulling stronger. Oh yeah... I still have -1* of spark on that 93 CAI tune too... Next thing to try is to re add that timing and more datalogging to see if I need to add more fuel after adding it back in.
Thanks...

[Quick]

Good to hear you got some results. Looks like yet again it came back to the gas?
The 93CAI tune adds timing over the 91CAI tune. You might try starting with the 91CAI tune with the 93 octane gas and no adjustments. Then if you don't get any knock retard maybe try the 93CAI tune with the 93 gas and go from there.