Got Another ?

[06MonteSS]

yeah, I follow ya... and I knew that wideband was comin'...

now if only I had the cashflow.... or at least someone else with a Monte SS to go and do that...

[mikel]

How about a few dyno pulls with A/F readout, that should only run $50-75.00.

Thanks

[1st6.0GTO]

Well here is some thing to add to this "I got another question" Im thinking of getting a set of JBA shorties. Now that I have the goat tuned what might I expect once installed, will it go lean? I know Im prob answering my own question with this next statment, I guess once installed I just need to watch my wide band and LTFT readings again. I also know every car is differant and I have heard of some going rich. Guess I will see what happends once I get them.

[1st6.0GTO]

Oh also I have some thing strange going on with my AFR's. I have noticed that over the last few day's of tuning, that apon starting up the car for the first thing for the day that Im getting a weird lean spike 16-16.5. Now this is happening after the car reaches opperating temp (about 10min into first driving the car). I have noticed that it only does it after the car has sat over night. Now I have watched my LTFT when this happends and they remain the same (as mentioned in previous posts). I havent watched my O2 volts not (or would it matter they are up streem). I have watched my KR when this happends and 0, nothing. I have the wide band in the drivers side, in place of the second (down streem) O2 sensor. I have also heard the drivers side runs a tad leaner. I do have a JBA exhaust, mids, H pipe and axle back system. Does this sound like an exhaust leak at the manifold>mid pipe? The car is running great, and havent heard or felt anything to suspect a problem. What do you think?

[06MonteSS]

by "the second (down streem) O2 sensor" - do you mean the one after the cat.?

A wideband should be put before the cats, no??

that's why with the Predator we monitor sensor 1 instead of sensor 2 - because sensor 1 is the O2 sensor before the cat....

[1st6.0GTO]

Oh also I have some thing strange going on with my AFR's. I have noticed that over the last few day's of tuning, that apon starting up the car for the first thing for the day that Im getting a weird lean spike 16-16.5. Now this is happening after the car reaches opperating temp (about 10min into first driving the car). I have noticed that it only does it after the car has sat over night. Now I have watched my LTFT when this happends and they remain the same (as mentioned in previous posts). I havent watched my O2 volts not (or would it matter they are up streem). I have watched my KR when this happends and 0, nothing. I have the wide band in the drivers side, in place of the second (down streem) O2 sensor. I have also heard the drivers side runs a tad leaner. I do have a JBA exhaust, mids, H pipe and axle back system. Does this sound like an exhaust leak at the manifold>mid pipe? The car is running great, and havent heard or felt anything to suspect a problem. What do you think?

yes that is what I mean. But I have no cats. And I had the understanding that the down stream (2nd) O2 sensors we turned off when we install a predator tune. So that is why i went with that sensor, so I wouldnt get a "cel". Also a good friend of mine and a shop owner and tuner of cars also told me the same thing. He had a 04 GTO and that is where he put his. In the second part of your statment you are right that we do want to monitor the first (precat sensor) to monitor LTFT.

[1st6.0GTO]

Oh also I have some thing strange going on with my AFR's. I have noticed that over the last few day's of tuning, that apon starting up the car for the first thing for the day that Im getting a weird lean spike 16-16.5. Now this is happening after the car reaches opperating temp (about 10min into first driving the car). I have noticed that it only does it after the car has sat over night. Now I have watched my LTFT when this happends and they remain the same (as mentioned in previous posts). I havent watched my O2 volts not (or would it matter they are up streem). I have watched my KR when this happends and 0, nothing. I have the wide band in the drivers side, in place of the second (down streem) O2 sensor. I have also heard the drivers side runs a tad leaner. I do have a JBA exhaust, mids, H pipe and axle back system. Does this sound like an exhaust leak at the manifold>mid pipe? The car is running great, and havent heard or felt anything to suspect a problem. What do you think?

Ok I was wondering if someone could answer this question I posted a few days ago, Its still doing it. I have also noticed that after the lean spike as mentioned above it will fall to 13.0-13.5. Now this is all during normal cruise. And then it goes away and operates normaly.
Also another thing I have posted on this thread my slope is adjusted to +1 and my PE is @ -6 and I am finding that @ wot my afr's are still vairing alot. they will go from 12.7 and some times fall to 11.5. Now could this have something to do with my above question or is it maybe due to the high intake air temps, hell last night outside air was in the 70+ and intake air was reading 90+. Or is it some thing else? I was thinking of moving my wideband over to the (right) passenger side of the exhaust and see what happends. Also should I try to lean it out on the PE some more and is it normal to only be +1 on the slope but -6 on PE (-7if I lean it out more). LTFT are still for the most part holding where they were as mentioned before. Some help would be good, Please!

[1st6.0GTO]

Oh also I have some thing strange going on with my AFR's. I have noticed that over the last few day's of tuning, that apon starting up the car for the first thing for the day that Im getting a weird lean spike 16-16.5. Now this is happening after the car reaches opperating temp (about 10min into first driving the car). I have noticed that it only does it after the car has sat over night. Now I have watched my LTFT when this happends and they remain the same (as mentioned in previous posts). I havent watched my O2 volts not (or would it matter they are up streem). I have watched my KR when this happends and 0, nothing. I have the wide band in the drivers side, in place of the second (down streem) O2 sensor. I have also heard the drivers side runs a tad leaner. I do have a JBA exhaust, mids, H pipe and axle back system. Does this sound like an exhaust leak at the manifold>mid pipe? The car is running great, and havent heard or felt anything to suspect a problem. What do you think?

Ok I was wondering if someone could answer this question I posted a few days ago, Its still doing it. I have also noticed that after the lean spike as mentioned above it will fall to 13.0-13.5. Now this is all during normal cruise. And then it goes away and operates normaly.
Also another thing I have posted on this thread my slope is adjusted to +1 and my PE is @ -6 and I am finding that @ wot my afr's are still vairing alot. they will go from 12.7 and some times fall to 11.5. Now could this have something to do with my above question or is it maybe due to the high intake air temps, hell last night outside air was in the 70+ and intake air was reading 90+. Or is it some thing else? I was thinking of moving my wideband over to the (right) passenger side of the exhaust and see what happends. Also should I try to lean it out on the PE some more and is it normal to only be +1 on the slope but -6 on PE (-7if I lean it out more). LTFT are still for the most part holding where they were as mentioned before. Some help would be good, Please!

Well I moved the Wideband sensor from the left pipe to the right pipe and the same thing is happening. After the car sits for a while(over night or so) and you have it at opperating temp (10 mins of driving or so) I still get a lean spike 16.0+ afr then it drops to 13.0+ then returns to normal 14.7-15.0. As I was driving the car around for a little while today after this happened I looked at my O2 volts (sensor1 on both banks) and @ wot they are 1000v+ and my afr's at wot are still droping into the high 11's. They start off in the low 12's but then fall. So If one of you guys who know more about this than me could advise me that would be great. I know there is alot of info here and makes for a long read, sorry. Thanks

[1st6.0GTO]

Just to add, I made a couple of adjustments and Im not sure whats going on. I took another 2% off the topend PE table and when I watch my LTFT they are going up. They went from -2.0 @ wot to -4.0+. I dont get it and Im not having fun. I watched my timing and KR(0 adv.on low end, 3% adv on top end) and still both are good. AFR's are still fluttering in high 11's- mid 12's. LTFT at cruise is @ -.07/-1.5. And that intermittent lean spike is driving me nuts. Im wondering if the wideband is bad...hmmm? The car seems plenty strong but I thought there shouldnt be such a differance between the injector slope #'s (+1) and my PE #'s (-9%). Somebody, anybody, please enlighten me.

[1st6.0GTO]

Ok since Im not getting any answers on here I have to start come to my own conclusions. Maybe my weird lean spike after driving the car for aprox 10min is due to the PE 2-3.8k adjustment being at -10 as is the 4-7k. But no that cant be cause the PE is only for WOT, right? Right. Again should there be such a differance between number for the slope and the PE. Slope is at +1 and PE is at -10, afrs at wot are closer to 12.5 than they were before, but still not holding steady. They will drop into the high 11's for a moment and then go back to 12's. So then I called AEM and told them my problem with the wideband, they sujested a couple of tests to perform on the sensor. Ill give them a try on Wed. But I would still like to know if my other stuff looks right. Hell who knows.

[06MonteSS]

k, what'cha want to do is, get your average ltft's dialed in at normal cruise/driving... you want them to be -2 to +2... once your average ltft's are within that range, then you can start working on your WOT PE range... for that, you want your O2's to be .86xx to .9xxx to be in the "safe range. If you have a wideband, then check your AFR at WOT, and you want your AFR to be between 12.5 and 12.8 at WOT.

[1st6.0GTO]

Well after speaking to Mike on the phone he informed me as to what to do about my afr spikeing problem, He sujested reinstalling the factory tune and driving the car and see if the spike problem accurs then. I also asked him if it is normal for the slope and pe adjustments to be such a big gap and he said yes. I also noticed that the car yesterday @ +1 on the slope started to run lean LTFT were bouncing around -3.0's to -4.0's and this is the setting I have had the car at for a good week or so. So I adjusted it the other way -2 in the slope and it was fine for part of the day today but then tonight it started to go wacky, LTFT went the other way +4.0's to +5.0's. Now that Im home I have installed the factory tune and have the batt disconected over night. I will then take the car out in the morn for a short drive to see if I get that weird lean spike I have been talking about for a week now. Im hoping it dosnt happen so that I can then narrow it down to the tune and get this resolved. Funny thing is the car is running fine, all but the spike and my LTFT being out of wack (on there own). Anymore sujestions would be greatfull. Thanks.

[06MonteSS]

... I also noticed that the car yesterday @ +1 on the slope started to run lean LTFT were bouncing around -3.0's to -4.0's...

if your ltft's are negative, that means you are running rich, not lean. You're running rich, so the computer is subtracting fuel (negative ltft's).

if you were running lean, the computer would be adding fuel and giving you positive ltft's.

[1st6.0GTO]

... I also noticed that the car yesterday @ +1 on the slope started to run lean LTFT were bouncing around -3.0's to -4.0's...

if your ltft's are negative, that means you are running rich, not lean. You're running rich, so the computer is subtracting fuel (negative ltft's).

if you were running lean, the computer would be adding fuel and giving you positive ltft's.

Yes your right. It was late last night and got it backwards. What still remains is that out of the blue it went from running at a +1 setting on the slope and for most of a week ltft siting at -0.7 to -1.5, then they started running at
-3.0's to -4.0's. That's when I moved the slope the other way -2. The ltft were fine then for the first half of the day sitting at +0.7 to + 2.0 then last night they did it again they jumped to +3.0 to +5.0. Not to mention the lean spiking problem. As I said I have installed the factory tune and am going to take the car out this morning to see if the lean spike appears. If it dosnt then to me there is something in the tune. As I told mike on the phone even though I had the 93 tune (unmodified) in the car for a while, it might have been doing this the whole time and I just noticed it now cause I have my wideband and aeroforce gauge. Mike wants me to call him on thursday to let him know what the outcome of installing the factory tune did for the lean spike.
Back to the ltft, Im starting to wonder if it takes longer that 20-30min for say my car to relearn. But actualy a day or so. I dont know. After I do my little test, I am gonna install the 91tune and make some adjustments and see how it runs. I dont need this car messing up, I had a simular problem with my 07 stang gt and when I reinstalled the factory tune it went away, I traded the car in on this current one.

[1st6.0GTO]

Well took the car out for a drive with the factory tune installed and NO weird lean spike AT ALL! So that tells me that something in the 93oct tune is causing it. Now I guess I need to wait till tomarrow to speak to Mike. I did get a "CEL" but that is from not having the cat's and one O2 sensor removed. SO I might go ahead and install the 93tune but not modifiy anything and see what it does.