Page 11 of 13
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:43 pm
by Krazyrdr83
so is the 9r17 update the new crom we've been trying out?
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:25 pm
by Srt4Dr1ver
duster360 wrote:Srt4Dr1ver wrote: So I ran the tune again, without pulling any timing, just added fuel, my max hit afr was 12.2, a little high but I will lower it tomorrow. But as to my knock, it still is ridiculously high. What do I need to do for this to work...? Here is my log.
First things first, log the proper PIDs. You didn't log the most important PID, MAP. Without it you don't even know what your boost is.
Here's my suggested list:
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f384/wh ... og-484265/
Second: That's quite a bit of knock for a max A/F of 12.2 and relatively low timing especially with Don's new Knock thresholds. Somethings up. Add fuel back in to get the A/F between 11.5-12.0, clear the LT KR and retest. A more complete list of PIDs might show an issue.
Are you using 91 octane fuel or 93?
Do you have a way to datalog A/F?
What brand of wideband are you using?
I have an AEM wideband UEGO. My afr's hit 12.4 today cuz of the cold weather, higher boost i guess. I logged with the map today. I turned down my boost after this log and added another 3% of fuel to each rpm range. I will dl this new addition tomorrow. But here is the one I did today.
-93 octane btw.
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:46 pm
by duster360
Get the A/F under 12.0 before you do anything else.
Log as many PIDs on the list i provided as you can.
OPen Loop Fa
LT fuel trim
St fuel trim
These and most of the others are very important and should be logged every time
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:16 pm
by SCGt94
yea this crom will be the new one to answer your question crazy
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:34 pm
by Srt4Dr1ver
duster360 wrote:Get the A/F under 12.0 before you do anything else.
Log as many PIDs on the list i provided as you can.
OPen Loop Fa
LT fuel trim
St fuel trim
These and most of the others are very important and should be logged every time
My car is in the shop right now, something with my clutch or trans, it's making weird sounds. I will try to do another run with everything you have listed as soon as I get it back.
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:11 pm
by BlackACR
For those of us running the DSP and not yet having a Wideband, should we be concerned with running lean being we can't see what the A/F is? I've had 6* pulled due to knock, and I'm spiking to 22 or so psi dropping off to around 15psi. I've pulled timing to rid of knock but I still don't know what my A/F is. I was adding fuel while pulling timing as well (added about 6-7% from 3-7K RPM) I was originaly under the impression this was a pretty safe tune to run but I'm not too sure now. Thanks guys *Mods list below.
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:08 am
by Krazyrdr83
um....i would say it's not safe. not knowing what a/f you're running. probably running a bit lean if you're getting 6 counts. i actually did some logs with a buddy last night, and he was getting 4.5 counts and his a/f were in the low 12's. He added fuel, and lowered boost...every car will act a bit different to changes. but everyone will tell you to get a WB asap
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:55 am
by SCGt94
the tunes are designed to run the air fuels to 11.9 which is about as lean as you want to go. So a wide band is a must for sure.
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:19 am
by duster360
BlackACR wrote:For those of us running the DSP and not yet having a Wideband, should we be concerned with running lean being we can't see what the A/F is? I've had 6* pulled due to knock, and I'm spiking to 22 or so psi dropping off to around 15psi. I've pulled timing to rid of knock but I still don't know what my A/F is. I was adding fuel while pulling timing as well (added about 6-7% from 3-7K RPM) I was originaly under the impression this was a pretty safe tune to run but I'm not too sure now. Thanks guys *Mods list below.
1st: email Don for this improved 93 tune. Most of your knock will probably go away.
2nd: If no wideband, I'd add fuel to combat Knock
before removing timing.
Use Knock as an indicator for where to add fuel. Add fuel in 5% increments. Only remove timing(start w/ 1 degree) if you've already added more than 15% Fuel.
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:27 pm
by BlackACR
Great info, thanks guys. I know I need a WB. Is the AEM UEGO the best one to go with? I downloaded the 9r17.crom last night due to it showing updated 9/25 (now I get a P0138 code.) I assume this is NOT the new crom everyone else is testing, or is it. anyway I'm thinking of pulling the tune off until I have the proper gauges to monitor what the engine is doing. Sad to do it though.
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:33 am
by Krazyrdr83
Ok, Duster or Don, help me out here.
Car has been running pretty good. Duster, you mentioned the 93 oct tune (9r18 crom), was pulling 2% LT fuel, so I pulled the negative cable off last night for about an hour while I got ready to go out. Didn't do any pulls last night, this morning I added fuel (was running 11.8-11.9, thought I would bring it down a little). 12.5% 3-4k, 12.5% 4-5k, 12% 5-6k, 11.5% 6-7k (as of right now).
Did a pull this morning 3rd-4th, temps are prob 10 degrees cooler than the last time I showed you my log, a/f are stuck in the 12.0-12.2, sometimes drop to 11.9. Before, I would only add 10% and run high 10's mid low 11's. But seems as if lately with the 93oct tune it's running a bit leaner, and having to add more fuel. AS for fuel mods, stock PCM, stock fuel system, fuel pump rewire. Also, while looking at the graph, seems like LT fuel is still -4%, before it was -2%.
I'm not getting any knock besides the high rpm of maybe 1 count. LT knock comes and goes, but can't pinpoint where it's at, again it's only 1 count. Any input and suggestions would be helpfull. Spike hasn't changed, 20-21 psi and drops down to about 17-18, and falls off to around 14 by 5800 or sooner.
http://depositfiles.com/files/ucytd4mgy
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:48 pm
by Srt4Dr1ver
Srt4Dr1ver wrote:duster360 wrote:Srt4Dr1ver wrote: So I ran the tune again, without pulling any timing, just added fuel, my max hit afr was 12.2, a little high but I will lower it tomorrow. But as to my knock, it still is ridiculously high. What do I need to do for this to work...? Here is my log.
First things first, log the proper PIDs. You didn't log the most important PID, MAP. Without it you don't even know what your boost is.
Here's my suggested list:
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f384/wh ... og-484265/
Second: That's quite a bit of knock for a max A/F of 12.2 and relatively low timing especially with Don's new Knock thresholds. Somethings up. Add fuel back in to get the A/F between 11.5-12.0, clear the LT KR and retest. A more complete list of PIDs might show an issue.
Are you using 91 octane fuel or 93?
Do you have a way to datalog A/F?
What brand of wideband are you using?
I have an AEM wideband UEGO. My afr's hit 12.4 today cuz of the cold weather, higher boost i guess. I logged with the map today. I turned down my boost after this log and added another 3% of fuel to each rpm range. I will dl this new addition tomorrow. But here is the one I did today.
So I ran a dl again today but with lowered boost and more fuel. My fuel is +~12% in each rpm range. I ran it in 3rd gear and my boost was at ~15psi and creeping maybe to 16. I wanted it to be ~18-19 but I guess I went too low. I didn't get a chance to run again after raising it up some but here is my datalog.
Fuel: +~12%
Boost: ~15-16psi
AFR: mid 10's
I'm hoping with my goal 18-19psi that my afr's will be mid 11's.
BTW: I put in new NGK 4306's gapped @ .32. Before I was stock champions gapped @ .50. That might've been a problem.
-93 octane btw.
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:46 am
by SCGt94
Krazyrdr83 wrote:Ok, Duster or Don, help me out here.
Car has been running pretty good. Duster, you mentioned the 93 oct tune (9r18 crom), was pulling 2% LT fuel, so I pulled the negative cable off last night for about an hour while I got ready to go out. Didn't do any pulls last night, this morning I added fuel (was running 11.8-11.9, thought I would bring it down a little). 12.5% 3-4k, 12.5% 4-5k, 12% 5-6k, 11.5% 6-7k (as of right now).
Did a pull this morning 3rd-4th, temps are prob 10 degrees cooler than the last time I showed you my log, a/f are stuck in the 12.0-12.2, sometimes drop to 11.9. Before, I would only add 10% and run high 10's mid low 11's. But seems as if lately with the 93oct tune it's running a bit leaner, and having to add more fuel. AS for fuel mods, stock PCM, stock fuel system, fuel pump rewire. Also, while looking at the graph, seems like LT fuel is still -4%, before it was -2%.
I'm not getting any knock besides the high rpm of maybe 1 count. LT knock comes and goes, but can't pinpoint where it's at, again it's only 1 count. Any input and suggestions would be helpfull. Spike hasn't changed, 20-21 psi and drops down to about 17-18, and falls off to around 14 by 5800 or sooner.
http://depositfiles.com/files/ucytd4mgy
What are the a/f's like w/o the changes made?
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:21 am
by duster360
Krazyrdr83 wrote:Ok, Duster or Don, help me out here.
Car has been running pretty good. Duster, you mentioned the 93 oct tune (9r18 crom), was pulling 2% LT fuel, so I pulled the negative cable off last night for about an hour while I got ready to go out. Didn't do any pulls last night, this morning I added fuel (was running 11.8-11.9, thought I would bring it down a little). 12.5% 3-4k, 12.5% 4-5k, 12% 5-6k, 11.5% 6-7k (as of right now).
Did a pull this morning 3rd-4th, temps are prob 10 degrees cooler than the last time I showed you my log, a/f are stuck in the 12.0-12.2, sometimes drop to 11.9. Before, I would only add 10% and run high 10's mid low 11's. But seems as if lately with the 93oct tune it's running a bit leaner, and having to add more fuel. AS for fuel mods, stock PCM, stock fuel system, fuel pump rewire. Also, while looking at the graph, seems like LT fuel is still -4%, before it was -2%.
I'm not getting any knock besides the high rpm of maybe 1 count. LT knock comes and goes, but can't pinpoint where it's at, again it's only 1 count. Any input and suggestions would be helpfull. Spike hasn't changed, 20-21 psi and drops down to about 17-18, and falls off to around 14 by 5800 or sooner.
http://depositfiles.com/files/ucytd4mgy
An extra -2.7% of LTFT(-1.9% vs -4.68%) can proably explain your difference(leaner) in A/F
LTFT deducts fuel via the VE table but the DSP adds fuel from via the Power Enrichment table. They're not a 1:1 change. -4% LTFT +4% DSP does not equal 0 change in A/F. I haven't bothered to calulate it but im pretty sure % in VE has a greater impact on A/F than PE fuel %.
The PCM usually accounts for the cooler ACT with a little less ipw. So I doubt thats a direct influence
Why your PCM is so quick to pull LTFT at WOT is a bit odd to me. But if it keeps coming back and pulling fuel at WOT you're just going to have to work with it.
ps: your knock is at time 22.809, its after you're off the gas, so don't worry about it. To find it more easily just turn all the other PIDS off except ST KR.
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:22 am
by Krazyrdr83
without any changes to the a/f (adding fuel)? not sure. when i uploaded the crom, i made the changes at the same time before. and a/f were mid to high 11's. I'm thinking it was the cooler weather that raised the a/f a few points. this morning was about 8-10 degrees warmer than that morning and a/f's were back in the mid 11's