Outer DIY Tuning limits for U7158 Predator - Anyone there??

[h083221]

Hi all

Firstly ... this looks to be a great site ... good to see all the excellent support from the Diablosport team!! That is what really makes a product like this worthwhile!!

I have just purchased a new U7158 Predator and am about to start making mods to my truck. I am currently just going to install a 4-5# lower pulley ... and I expect that one of the pre-loaded tunes will work just fine for this.

However ... I am going to be going to a 2.6L KB SC soon, with a CAI (no other mods ... except maybe a larger TB farther down the road ... I will datalog vacumm ahead of TB to know when I need to change it). I will be doing all my own tuning (AFR, knock detection, etc), and since I am new to the Predator, I was wondering ... do you thing it is flexible enough to allow me to tune for the new SC ... I expect about +500 rwhp at about 18 - 19 psi of boost with my upgrades. I do NOT want to get a custom tune ... as this is my hobby ... if I blow up my engine ... at least I will know what NOT to do next time ... and I will definately share the info with all of you!!

Is anyone near the limits of what the Predator will do?? or what they think it will do from a DIY perspective?? I would be interested to hear from anyone who does their own tuning with this tool ... and how far they have gotten with it!

Moderators - any idea of what you think the DIY "theoretical" power limit is for the Predator in this application. From the specs on this tool ... I don't think +500 rwhp should be a stretch for it ... but I would like to hear your thoughts. Any ideas as to a "theoretical" limit??

Thanks
Dean

[sonicbluel]

I would suggest and more likely probable that with a kb running at 18 psi, you will peg your maf thus you will need a mafia and a custom tune. If that doesnt happend which it should because you can peg with a 6# on stock blower, i'd say the kb at 18 will max your injectors and you will probably have to step up to bigger injectors and pumps which again will require a custom tune.

If your a stock block and you did not know any of the above then you should talk to a cmr dealer as you will more then likely put a rod through your block with a kb and trying to tune it yourself.

Your first plan of the 4-5# and stock eaton would be about the only one that i would consider without a custom tune, even then i would still watch my maf v in cold temps so as to not peg. I also would not change or try to tweek the predator as is tune unless you have a wideband a/f guage.

I was running a 4# lower on stock pred tune and i tweaked the a/f a bit as it was very rich, but i also have a wideband and only made minor adjustments. I live in a cold climate with a large temperature change so i ended up going with a mafia (requires a custom tune) when i upped to a 6# lower and ported eaton as in the cold my maf voltage would have pegged with that combo)

[h083221]

Sonicbluel

Thanks for the reply. Sorry ... I forgot to mention that I had a 2001 Lightning.

I am not too concerned about the MAF pegging as I have seen testing results with the stock 90 mm MAF being good to 20 psi boost and 520hp ... however ... your point is valid and I will ramp up to max boost cautiously ... and monitor the boost (and MAF voltrage) on the way.

One question - If your MAF would have pegged with only a 6# lower pulley ... it makes me think that you may have pre-2001 Lightning with an 80mm MAF?? Just guessing??

Also ... testing has shown that the 42# injectors and lightning fuel pump are also good to +520hp ... but we are getting very close to their limit!! I'll install a Boost a Spark ... and Boost A Pump if I have to.

I am well aware of what the block will take in stock form ... and I can tell you that it is well above 500hp with a reasonable tune ... although maybe somewhat less with a crappy one. Anyone can blow up an engine with a shitty tune ... at less than 500hp. Don't worry ... I am not a nooby to tuning ... just a nooby with the predator (FYI - I also have a 2.2L KB Blowzilla/Flowzilla on a 408 stroker with TFS Twisted Wedge Stage 3 ported heads, forged internals, methanol/water injection, 83mm ProFlo MAF, and I tune it with TWEECER/RT, etc etc etc ... so I am not new to tuning).

Custom tune - NOT an option for me ... I do this as a hobby on my own truck ... and pride myself in doing my research before I make any stupid moves ... thus this question on other peoples experience. This is really the benefit of these forums.

I also have my own WB AFR logging system and Knock detection / automatic safety ignition retarding system to finish off my own tune.

I do thank you for all your advice though ... as I do believe that a custom tune is the way to go for +95% of the general population. I am just a rebel!! I hope it doesn't cost me too much in the long run!!

Regards
Dean

P.S. Getting there with your own tune is 75% of the fun!!
P.S.S. Put away $4000 in a saving account for the other 25% of the time ... LOL.

[sonicbluel]

actually my truck is a 03, and i was still getting close to peging.

Id say for what you want to do you would need the cmr tuning software, which i dont think is yet available to individuals. Basically i dont feel you will have enough adjustment without the cmr tuning software to do what u wish.

For myself the canned tune was fine, however with my wideband i felt i could fine tune the a/f for my combo and adjust other perameters for my liking.

I had to switch to the custom tune for the mafia, however the same still applies as now i can fine tune the custom tune to my preferences.

I all boils down to how far you wish to go, if you wish to make a lot of large changes then you will run out of adjustment without either a custom tune or cmr software to write your own tunes.

[h083221]

Thanks for the feedback sonicbluel

I expect you are right and I will end up needing a custom tune at some point ... but I prefer to take the tougher route first. I was just wondering what other people have already done on their own ... without getting the custom tune. How much max boost?? How much HP/TQ by fine tuning themselves, etc?? Anyone??

I'll keep an eye on my A/F ratio, injectors, and MAFV while I am ramping up, and see how far I can push it on my own ... but I would still like to hear from anyone who has already played with their tuner ... and feel they have reached the limits of what it can do.

Regards
Dean

[kmac1]

Thanks for the feedback sonicbluel

I expect you are right and I will end up needing a custom tune at some point ... but I prefer to take the tougher route first. I was just wondering what other people have already done on their own ... without getting the custom tune. How much max boost?? How much HP/TQ by fine tuning themselves, etc?? Anyone??

I'll keep an eye on my A/F ratio, injectors, and MAFV while I am ramping up, and see how far I can push it on my own ... but I would still like to hear from anyone who has already played with their tuner ... and feel they have reached the limits of what it can do.

Regards
Dean

Dean, glad to hear you are so enthusiastic about tuning your own truck. I have a Lightning too and its a lot of fun.

The tunes in the current Predator revision are really great tunes for the bolt on guys and are solid for trucks with 6# pulley's, most cold air kits and minor boltons. Beyond that you really need to monitor all vital functions. The tunes were not designed for aftermarket blowers so you are on your own in that aspect. If you do install the KB, I would suggest starting at 12psi and datalog MafV, timing, air and engine temps, A/F ratio, etc. Maybe pull a little timing till you get the A/F perfect. A fuel pressure guage is a good idea too. I have seen many Lightnings with clogged fuel filters and weak fuel pumps cause lean conditions. I have a feeling you will run out of Maf very early as these aftermarket blowers are capable of some good power at low boost levels. The main thing is to run it up a little higher each time, go back and check the datalogs to make sure you aren't running out of maf while monitoring the AF. If you see it in the 4.9V range it's time to call around for a custom tune, a mafia and some 60# injectors(maf, injectors and pumps all run out around the same power level). The custom tune will be very similar to the Predator tune you started with only it will accomodate the upgrades. Don't think of the custom tune as being complete. They are rarely perfect out of the box, you can still "Dial" it in yourself. Whatever you do, don't use a stock tune or factory horsepower tune as your starting point, use the pulley tune as it has some limits raised for safety that you can't access.

Have fun and enjoy!
Kevin@Diablo

[h083221]

Thanks Kevin

Much appreciated. Where do you think the limit is if one is starting with the pulley tune. Will the Predator allow me to max out my MAF, pumps and injectors?? If it gives me that much flexibility, I'll be real happy.

Regards
Dean

[kmac1]

Depending on the dyno you are using and the weather conditions I have seen the factory Maf and injectors run out around 430-450 rwhp. Some people may bandaid the injectors with higher fuel pressures but that doesn't address the Maf issue. Race fuel might make a few more hp as well. The tunes have the max maf voltage raised to the max the PCM can handle which is 4.99V so yes the Predator makes the absolute most of the stock components but you shouldn't run on the edge of the cliff all the time. If you know you want to make big power, plan to install bigger injectors, fuel pumps and a mafia when you do the blower. You won't regret it. The stock connecting rods can't take any mishaps

Kev