Using u7193 to adjust for running Hydrogen/Hydroxy (HHO)

[neonhomer]

Okay... the craze is out there... so I was wondering how could I use my Predator to cut back the fuel so one could burn that Hydroxy HHO stuff... not to say that I am doing it, but I was wondering if it is possible to use the Predator in this way.

[mikel]

No, to do this properly you need to command Open Loop so the PCM does not look at feedback from the O2 sensors, otherwise it will keep adding fuel to attempt to see a 14.7:1 A/F at cruise...

Thanks

[h2bob]

What about those EFIE (Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer) devices which are suppose to allow you to lean out the engine by changing the output voltage of the O2 sensor (supposedly the PCM sees normal values, but you are really running lean)? I understand that O2 works best at 14.7:1, but would going slightly leaner work? How quickly can LTFT values change?

[mikel]

What about those EFIE (Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer) devices which are suppose to allow you to lean out the engine by changing the output voltage of the O2 sensor (supposedly the PCM sees normal values, but you are really running lean)? I understand that O2 works best at 14.7:1, but would going slightly leaner work? How quickly can LTFT values change?

That simply sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Also, for anyone thinking about adding hydrogen, tell me this:
How will you determine how much hydrogen you need to add, since your O2 sensors cant see or measure its content in the exhaust, how will you keep from running so lean that stuff melts, or so rich that you wash your rings out?

Answer:
You cant. Only lots of experimentation, and maybe some EGT probes will be able to tell you if your even close.
Again, if we could simply run our cars on water, why aren't the OEMs doing it yet????

[Grumpy_Aero_Guy]

mike: QUIT ADDING TO THE CONFUSION WITH FACTS AND PHYSICS..... LOL

I just put four tornados in series in my truck and i'm getting 65 mpg.

[mikel]

Lol, damn facts and physics.
It seems to be the whole physics thing that nobody wants to accept....lol.

[h2bob]

mike: QUIT ADDING TO THE CONFUSION WITH FACTS AND PHYSICS..... LOL

I just put four tornados in series in my truck and i'm getting 65 mpg.

Above is actual proof. Why don't car manufacturers install tornadoes?

But seriously, running slightly lean at cruise (maybe 15.2:1) should in theory give better gas mileage, although it is not emissions friendly hence 14:7:1.

[Grumpy_Aero_Guy]

well, we are splitting nat's hairs here, but leaner mixture decreases the flame speed AND lowers the adiabatic flame tempuerature, so you'll lose a little power as well.....

less fuel burn, but slightly lower power as well. You have to look at specific power --- slightly lean I am guessing drops the hp/liter number slightly.... no free lunch.

[neonhomer]

I'm not thinking of doing this, but I have a friend of mine who built a Hydroxy Generator and just running straight power to it, he swears he's getting an extra 5mpg from it.

It would take a lot more than what most end users have to create a system to make this work right.

A lot of people are running Pulse Width Modulated controllers to control the "reaction" in the generator. They then link this to the throttle position sensor to tell it when to add more.... Sounds like a crock to me....

I just prefer to keep my maintenance up, tires good, and my Predator installed. It has gained me about 1-2mpg extra, but I have the trims set while at cruise (in OD at 70MPH) instead of where it usually is set at (in 3 at 70).

Also.... Acetone is a crock as well. My first tank I ran with it netted me an extra 2 MPG, but I could not repeat the results. So I just finished the can at a lower dose to use as a injector cleaner.. NOW... something that does work is Lucas Fuel System Cleaner. I put a bottle of that in w/ each fill up, and net an extra 1-2MPG additional to the Predator. If you buy a couple of small bottles of it and use them.. save the bottles. Then buy a gallon of it for $30. A small bottle is 5.25 ounces and is $4.99. A gallon is $29.99. That makes it $0.23/oz compared to $0.95/oz for the small bottle.

Damn... took this thread on a hard right turn!

[mikel]

Interesting.

[wmontg5988]

i used an efie enhancer for the maf sensor and succeeded in getting ping i guess. sounded like vavle rattle like it was running richer before i input hho. what's the difference in map and maf in the way they control fuel mixture. seems the predator can't lower fuel mixtures for this and now i wonder if o2 sensor enhancer will do the trick. this i am sure of hho gas has quite a bang and results is just about the same amount of water vapor as gasooline.i filled two baloons one with hho and a much larger one with gasoline fumes (about 5 times larger figuring(guessing) that gasoline hits the cylider as a liquid and vaporizes to a gas before compressing) having done this, I and the neighbors lit the baloons one at a time. keeping in mind this is a poor man's experimental evaluation, the hho went off with a fire dept. attention getting bang. i'm not claiming science here but it seems when the fact that leaner means hotter is mentioned no one is considering the addition of hho to make up for the loss of fuel. my own experiment on my e350 has shown that it will stumble along on just hho gas for about 30 seconds but that won't allow for idle and higher rpm fuel mixture. a carburated small engine generator will run just fine because you can adjust for one rpm. i believe we need to modify the fuel injectors to carry the hho gas under moderate pressure and allow the ecm to do its job as intended. i am sure hho gas production can be solved thru high amp alernators and pwm(pulse width modulators) and a pressurized and liquid cooled fuel cell. as for those who say "why haven't the oem guys done this" I say that they have not had the incentive to produce. cheap oil always kept new technology out of the picture. things i believe will begin to change soon, not fast, but they will change.

[wmontg5988]

What about those EFIE (Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer) devices which are suppose to allow you to lean out the engine by changing the output voltage of the O2 sensor (supposedly the PCM sees normal values, but you are really running lean)? I understand that O2 works best at 14.7:1, but would going slightly leaner work? How quickly can LTFT values change?

That simply sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Also, for anyone thinking about adding hydrogen, tell me this:
How will you determine how much hydrogen you need to add, since your O2 sensors cant see or measure its content in the exhaust, how will you keep from running so lean that stuff melts, or so rich that you wash your rings out?

Answer:
You cant. Only lots of experimentation, and maybe some EGT probes will be able to tell you if your even close.
Again, if we could simply run our cars on water, why aren't the OEMs doing it yet????

what are egt probes and where can i get them? i realize there's no conspiracy concerning oil companies and oem not advancing hho gas tech, but they do have some control over lobbying, politics, etc. that prevents furthering cheaper technology. I really think hho fueled cars can happen, it will just be a matter of time. also i believe hho will have to be injected like gasoline in order for control over a/f mixtures. have you any idea the fuel pressure a ford injector operates on? the old styles used high pressure and an atomizer that chattered to atomize the fuel. would an open bore injector allow free flow and higher volume of gas? i was thinking around 70 psi system and let the ecm take over the job with a little tweaking from a programmer.

[wmontg5988]

mike: QUIT ADDING TO THE CONFUSION WITH FACTS AND PHYSICS..... LOL

I just put four tornados in series in my truck and i'm getting 65 mpg.

are you talking about the tornadoes that put a twist on the air? what happens to the air in the straight away in the intake channels? I'm not here to argue, but in the hvac industry air tends to take shape with the ducting that that it travels thru. or was this an inside joke? anyway, i heard from some source the tornadoes were a rip off much like the fuel magnets. although, fuel magnets have shown savings only on diesels also heating the fuel to a high temp helps as well. just curious.

[06MonteSS]

it was a joke...

tornado's are useless... heh...

[sickREDsierra]

well damn, i am taking my tornado out if all of you are gonna make fun of it.


i thought it sounded like a turbo? zzzziiiiiiinnnngggggg