Tune Information

Bought the i3 tuner about a month ago for my 2014 Charger SRT. Also bought a license for my 2006 F150. While I think the product is good overall, it does have some shortcomings that should be easy to correct... but it appears DS is not interested. My main concern is the lack of information on what the tunes change. Many aspects of the vehicle's programming are being changed and DS is not willing to explain what these changes are. Also, at least with my F150, there is no information given as to what the Standard Tunes are or what they do/change. This is made worse by the information given out by DS. One example is as follows:

I asked for information as to what the Standard Tunes were as they are not described anywhere other then odd names.

In the case of any tunes with a cold-air kit in the name, they are 91 minimum.

I then point out the following:

So I'm guessing that all of the listed tunes are for cold air intakes? If this is correct and what you are stating is that they all 91 minimum (I'm assuming octane) why are there names such as "87 KN Performance" and "87 Roush Performance"? What does the 87 stand for?

I'm then told:

The 87 is the minimum rating of the required fuel.

So all cold air intake tunes were for a minimum of 91 octane... but then that was not correct. This is only after _several_ emails and I even included photos of the tunes to show exactly what I was looking at. Despite asking many times if there was some explanation as to what changes were being made, this was the answer:

I simply do not have a way of explaining every single item that we adjust is set to.

A company sells a tuner that changes certain parameters on the vehicle and they can't tell the customer what these changes are?

A friend uses a COBB tuner. Their website is _packed_ with information about their stock tunes (maps). For example:

DESCRIPTION
Stage2 Valet Mode v202 - Intended for 2016 Subaru WRX vehicles with stock intake system, COBB High Flow Turboback Exhaust and deleted 2nd boost restrictor pill running 91 octane or greater E0-E10 petrol. Boost Targets: Wastegate Boost Pressure only. Rev Limiter - 4000 RPM.

To me, giving out this type of information to customers seems perfectly logical. Should we not know what changes are being made? If COBB can do this, we can't DS? This really does not create confidence in the product... or especially the service. I'd think it should be easy enough to simply put out _some_ information on each tune. Just write up some quick information on it, post it to the website and now you have given out this information to _everyone_ who has or might buy the product. it also serves to avoid giving out wrong information, as was done in my case.

[mikel]

describing everything the tune does is just not feasible.
This is akin to asking your surgeon how he fixed your heart, or how a pilot flies a plane....its a specialized skill that is tough to put into plain english.

The basics of any tune involve optimizing fueling and timing for peak, safe power, and reducing things like torque management/torque modulation that allow the pcm to limit torque output in different scenarios. Additionally, when the trans is part of the tune, there are often changes made to optimize shifting performance, usually by means of adding line pressure.


Thanks

mikel wrote:

describing everything the tune does is just not feasible.[/quote

Sure it is. As an example, here is a tune explain on Cobbs site:

Valet Mode - Intended for an otherwise stock 2014 Fusion 2.0L FWD AT (CD391N) vehicle. This map is designed for Valet use. The vehicle rev limiter has been reduced to 3000rpm, and the speed limiters have been reduced to 35mph (56.3 kph).

mikel wrote:

This is akin to asking your surgeon how he fixed your heart, or how a pilot flies a plane....its a specialized skill that is tough to put into plain english.

I'd hope that creating a tune is not as complicated as heart surgery or flying a plane but on top of that.... no and no. You _really_ think if you went to for heart surgery your surgeon would not explain _anything_ about the surgery? Of course he/she would. This is using your own example. Would they explain about every little detail? No. That is not what I'm talking about. A good example of how this _is_ actually possible is from your own email:

Other than that the timing and fuel tables are modified to improve power within the limitations of the specified fuel. In the case of any tunes with a cold-air kit in the name, they are 91 minimum. The torque management is also all but removed in any performance tune to put the vehicle’s available power to the ground.

How long did this information take to write down? Each time a tune is created and loaded into the devices, someone takes a couple of minutes to add the information to the website. What this also helps with is bad information being given out. An example... all cold-air tunes are not 91 octane tunes (many contains names with "87 octane" in them).

Right now, the only information on tunes is what is in their names. Examples... "JLT 87 Octane" and "Modify Stock Tune". As a customer (or potential customer), when I'm making changes to the way my vehicle operates... I like to know, even in the slightest, what those changes are. Again, the examples I posted above.

Another example from COBB:

Intended for an otherwise stock 2014 Fusion 2.0L FWD AT vehicle with a stock exhaust, and a stock intake system. Panel Filters OK. 91+ octane fuel minimum (95+ RON). Boost: Dynamic up to ~22psi peak boost pressure, +/- 3psi as needed to achieve load, torque, and airflow targets. 7200rpm fuel cut, 6900rpm throttle cut redline. Burnout Enabled (5000rpm).

Please don't take my post the wrong way. I do like the product. I just think a lot of what went into the tuner is being wasted for lack of information.

[mikel]

Its very rare for us to increase rev limiters as we dont want to be responsible for any presumed engine wear. The bulk of the changes we make are to improve power (timing/fueling) and to reduce the pcm intrusion (Torque management, etc). Even claiming a target boost level on turbo vehicles is tricky since they are all pcm controlled these days and boost level will vary as described in the Cobb tidbit. Sometimes that can create more confusion that it resolves so there is a balance for sure.


Thanks